Love issue, help me!!

I'm disappointed in you aerostar! Suedes are usually very calm when it comes to love issues... or at least that's the impression I got when I visited Malmö. Anyway... do you know how she feels about you? How close are you?

If you decide to approach her and tell her how feel, you HAVE to do it in a way that's congruent with what your saying. Don't stand in front of her all slouched and shit, looking to the floor every time you open your mouth. Stand straigh, chin up... let her know that even if she says no you'll be calm and collected (even though you'll feel like shit deep inside!). "Don't let them see you bleed", that's what I say. You had the balls to spill your guts to a bunch of strangers.... now spill them in front of her! Godspeed!

From "Invisible Monsters":

"The one you LOVE and the one who LOVES you are never, ever the same person."

"Almost all the time, you tell yourself you're LOVING somebody when you're just using them.
This only looks like LOVE."

Then again... it's just a book...or....

Fact is... there's nothing to say about what a person should do for love that already hasn't been said. It's up to you. If you want it, get it. If you don't, then live with it. Is it worth the regret to remain "friends", whatever that means, and tortured by what-if's? Or, is it better to fuck-up being a friend in favor of something that probably will not be as great as you imagine it. I say go for it, but then again I don't mind rejection... it sure beats second-guessing yourself. Chances are you won't be happy with the results either way, so why not give it a shot? Best scenario, you get the girl. Worst scenario, you lose the girl. None of us can decide that for you. Besides, I think you already know the answer. I think you just want some encouragement. Well, here you go...

Also, if you try to seduce her and sneak into her good graces you will just be wasting time... either she likes you or she doesn't... I bet she knew the answer to that the first 30 seconds she laid eyes on you... and why waste your time on a chick who isn't in to you? Plenty o' fish, as the saying goes... and really, lying and being deceitful to trick her might get you in her panties, but unless she's a real head case it won't work long term...

I say keep your mouth shut. Get close to her. Woo her and seduce her before she knows what you're doing. If you can't turn the tables without professing your love, then you wouldn't have what it takes to sustain that love anyways.
You don't have to spill your guts to flirt.....or, be so blatant and charming that it takes the risk away. And let her see that you're only like that for her. No, nevermind-she'll see it without any road signs.

DONT EVEN BOTHER!!!!
EVEN IF SHE SAID YES IT WOULDNT LAST!!!
SAVE YOURSELF THE TIME AND TROUBLE AND DO SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE! WRITE A NOVEL! PAINT A PICTURE! BUILD A HOUSE!

PEACE!!!
NO WAR ON IRAQ!!!
NO BLOOD FOR OIL!!!

i'd say hang in there and hope for the best...but hell, its never worked for me.

Yeah right... don't get me wrong but you're assuming there is wit and charm to woo and seduce with. I mean, if said lovesick fellow had wit and charm enough to seduce, beguile, trick, what-have-you in the first place, you think they would be asking for advice on the internet, especially on a Palahniuk forum? A lot of smart people have no sense of seduction, this isn't "Seduce & Destroy 101" with your teacher Frank TJ Mackey... or "How to Pick Up Babes", although it could be... the point is, the dude really likes her, is unsure of himself, and needs encouragement. Both approaches work, commando or sincerity, it's just up to the individual what works for them, or what they are looking for. Like I mentioned before, he doesn't sound like he just wants some nookie. I could be wrong. If that is all he's after than by all means, go after that pelt by any means necessary... take no prisoners...

Well, since Brock brought it up: ("...this isn't "Seduce & Destroy 101" with your teacher Frank TJ Mackey... or "How to Pick Up Babes", although it could be..."). What has worked for you guys?
I always find "replicating" 70% effective. By replicating I mean, doing what she does, reading what she reads, and so on... that way she (usually) thinks I think the way does, thus creating an empathic relationship... it's all down hill after that.

"replicating"... I like that... like in "Blade Runner" or sumptin'... hell, I figure it's all not trying, as opposed to actually trying. The less you want something the more likely you are to get it, at least when it comes to many women, as they always seem to know when you're after something. Like beating 'em to the punch, making them desire you, and for fuck's sake, grow some stones, some brass ones even... I mean, if you can't even walk up to a woman and ask her out then why should she approach you?

I'm not saying ya gotta be cocky or full of yourself, but it helps to have a little confidence in who you are. Sure, I get turned down plenty, but goddamn it... a lot of times I don't.

The point is your just psyching yourself out if you think about it too much. I used to do the whole "I wonder if I should..." and "I wonder what she'll do..." and "I wonder if... I wonder if" until I came to the point that in my mind I finally figured out that there was no possible way she would ever go out with me, meanwhile wasting opportunities.

You learn as you live that life will pass you by if you don't make a mark, and the same goes for women. Here's the main thing to remember... you can plan, and you can devise, and you can speculate 'til the rooster quits banging the beaver, but you can't ever know.

Visualize it, dream about it, worry about what may be... fuck that, you can't always know. Who knows... Maybe she has gas pains when you ask her? Maybe she had a bad night's sleep. Maybe she's horny and in the mood. Maybe she digs you? Could be. You just don't know.

The best things happen when you don't expect it, so go for it. You're not getting any younger. Your life is ending one minute at a time. You already know all this. It's basic and simple and anyone can figure it out. It helps to know what you want before you somehow magically expect her to give it to you, so sit down, decide what you are looking for then get off your ass and do something about it.

It's like people who hope for something good. Hope won't get you jack shit. Sit home and jerk-off and hope to get laid one day and fall in love... I can guarantee unless the pizza boy turns out to be a horny, lonely babelicious hottie with low standards or serious personality disorder issues Fatal Attraction-style that you won't be getting any strange in this millenium, and even then maybe never.

Look around at half the dudes with girlfriends and booty calls... you telling me that you are worse off than most schlubs getting tail out there? You would have to be elephant-man ugly to not ever get laid, and even then maybe you could get the bearded lady or a circus midget... dig? Don't let chicks fool you. They need us just as much as they like to make us think that we need them...

go to instrife.com and get on their boards and ask the question.

9 out of 10 replies will be like slit her throat and throw her in the trunk of your car. hardcore kids crack me up.

ps. its called luck/fate. that quote above about the person you love never loving you....right on the mark.

Luck? Bullshit. Fate? Bullshit. Luck and Fate are words that people who fail use. Luck has nothing to do with why you lose money when you bet against the odds in Vegas. Fate has nothing to do with why a woman may leave you for another dude. You make your own fate. If you get lucky with a chick, it's because you tried. Pussy don't fall from no tree fellas. It'd be nice if it did, but in the meanwhile if you want some, ya gotta go to where it's at...

Do you think after Chuck Palahniuk's first book got rejected he said... "Fuck, I guess it's fate" or "Oh well, just my luck"... HELL NO... the dude got out there and got about writing an even more offensive book and he ended up with "Fight Club"... it's all in the interviews and his story... take a hint... it doesn't just apply to writing books...

dude you need to fucking chill out. women and writing books is a terrible analogy. i've gotten lucky enough times and i've failed enough times to know there isn't an [exact] science to it. the majority of girls go for the same type of guys every time. occasionally you'll stumble upon someone who's on the same level as you are and things will work out. thats the price of the individual and you won't find an ounce of me lamenting that. people are not rational. working at it doesn't always have a payoff. life isn't based on pure logic, and until you figure that out, you are useless.

right on.

You're right plastic... chicks go for anticlimaxers with no job and pictures of cartoon characters as avatars... my bad... and no, I won't chill, because I have nothing to chill about... oh except the fact that you insulted me. Insult my ideas... fine, but if you want to get personal, you asked for a response. I am merely expressing my opinion, and for some reason it makes you so angry that you find it necessary to try and censor what I am writing. You're a disgrace to manhood. How is it you are better than me when it comes to an opinion on women? Huh? What makes you such a fuckin' chick-Einstein? Women and writing books is not an analogy... but having a will to succeed is about anything... and if you need it spelled out for you, I bet Chuck has relationships, and I think he has the ability to approach women, and I think he gets over his fear, and I don't think he sits around and whines about fate and luck...fuck fate... In fact, I know, because in more than one interview on this site he talks about how he doesn't believe in luck or fate... as it is an existentialist theory agreed by Kierkegaard students. Also, I never said there was an exact science to men/women relationships. I never said I know anything that hasn't already been said. There really is nothing left to say besides talking about experience and the willingness to take action. It's all about motivation. Maybe you "stumble" into relationships because you don't know any other way to do it, but that's a load of crap... stumbling has nothing to do with it... you just lowered your standards and take what you can get, according to that logic, and i for one don't accept mediocrity. Life is not rational, so why do you expect me to be? Why should I think like you? Fuck you... and fuck you again. If I'm so full of shit, why do you read me over and over again... just pass it over, and if I'm full of shit, so are you... as an opinion is like an asshole... everybody's got one... and mine's no better than anyone else's...

Do you even know what carpe diem means, plastic? It means seize the day. Which is exactly what I've been saying. You contradicted yourself when you said "right on". You said to "stumble". Not try, like I said. You said it was fate. You said it was luck. And people who can't even figure out what they believe in are indeed useless. Just like people who hope and wait for fate and luck... because carpe diem means to fucking get out there and live life like it's your fucking last day on this miserable planet... grab hold of it with all your strength and fight...

I agree with Brock when he says "Fuck fate!". And I say that too, fuck fate! Fate/luck is for people with no responsibility for their own actions, for people who have no control of their lives and just let life itself take them where it may like a fallen leaf in the autumn wind. It pisses me off to hear people say: "well, I guess it was meant to be!". If you fucked up it doesn't mean you failed, you just found out how NOT to do something... try again and learn from your mistakes. Don't tell me you crashed 'cause it was destiny, next time pay attention to the road instead of talking on the cell phone!

Anyway, there's a line in Invisible Monsters that suits this thread: (I may be misquoting, so chill): "Beauty is power, the way love is power...". That's what's its all about: Power! Do you have it?? If you don't have the guts to talk to a chick it's 'cause she has power over you. Be it beauty, money, whatever! Once you realize that fact then you've demistified her... after that she's vulnerable.

i didn't insult you. you obviously have something to say on every topic. and if you're willing to spread your opinions all over the place, expect some people to disagree. i'm sorry thats life. i don't claim to be more of an expert than you, nor did i say you were "full of shit." what i'm trying to say is that i have experience which backs up my arguments. is my opinon the only correct one? certainly not. you and i have a different approach to women. my position on this whole thing does, in fact, advocate seizing the day. as i said, chance does play some part in this whole thing, and when you get a chance, you'd better fucking take it, and even you can agree with me on that one.

also, i'm glad you noticed that my obvious motive was to pick up girls with my avatar of a video game character. its a message board, not the fucking dating game you moron. sitting there and losing it every time someone has a conflicting viewpoint makes you useless. anticlimaxer, huh? i hear chicks don't find aggressive eccentrics too appealing either.

for the second time, i'll ask you to grow up and mellow out. it's not even worth getting upset about. grab some tissues and carry on.

Originally posted by plastic:

"dude you need to fucking chill out. women and writing books is a terrible analogy. i've gotten lucky enough times and i've failed enough times to know there isn't an [exact] science to it. the majority of girls go for the same type of guys every time. occasionally you'll stumble upon someone who's on the same level as you are and things will work out. thats the price of the individual and you won't find an ounce of me lamenting that. people are not rational. working at it doesn't always have a payoff. life isn't based on pure logic, and until you figure that out, you are useless."

- Yeah, I don't think being called useless is an insult, I guess I should call more people useless. Plus I need to make more people happy by telling them to fucking chill out. Thanks for the advice. I'd say you got SOME advice...

Originally posted by plastic:

"i'd say hang in there and hope for the best...but hell, its never worked for me."

- Ask me to mellow out all day long dude, but I will tell ya... I usually don't listen to morons... especially ones who try and control everyone else. Your way is not the right way... maybe for you... but for the rest of us, well, who died and made you king, plastic?

What's really interesting is how youobviously DON'T have anything to say about any topic but still post stuff like "right on!" or telling other people they are wrong. Try having an original thought someday, and if not original at least copy one from someone else.

Even I don't have to agree with anything you say, as you have changed your whole view again, like some kind of obsessive-compulsive Charlie Brown after too many fudge pops... get a grip... fair weather fan and wishy-washy seem to sum you up, but hey, they're just words... no insult...

Way to label me also... I love that... not only are you oh-so-friggin'-fond of yourself, but judgemental and close-minded as well... please... do go on...

You are right in one thing, plastic, this is neither the time or the place to discuss the fact that you insulted me, then had the fuckin' gall to tell me I was overreacting, so I will leave it at that... it speaks for itself... you said you are sorry.... I agree...

I will never apologize for being opinionated. I would rather die...

im sorry. if you we're legitmately offended by the word useless, i take it back.

yeah and that second quote proves my point, key phrase being "never worked for me" i sure as hell don't do that all the time. therefore, carpe diem is sound advice.

im also glad that you think im in here trying to control everyone. for example, posting "right on" in agreement. agreeing is bad, isn't it? there's only fun in conflict. im not trying to shove my viewpoint down your throat or anyone else's.

the point of this thread isn't for me or you to argue, so if you want to take this any further, you can write a fucking essay to a private message, because this isn't the place for it.

and for the love of god, read the post before you reply. you didn't give that last one much of a chance. it would save me a lot of trouble. kthx.

Brock, you're a pretty smart guy, that I must admit, since you're the one making the most sense out of this bunch (not a diss on you at all Plastic).

Having said that, my only advice is to rent Chris Rock's (either Bring the Pain or Bigger, Better, Blacker) I forget which one exactly. Usually a women knows the first time she meets you whether you even have a chance with her. Then if you pass that stage, its your job not to fuck it up.

Also, women have different tastes and you may get rejected from an ugly girl and you may hook up with a hot one. Point is, keep trying and don't be afraid of rejection. And be confident. If you're not confident, then you ain't going nowhere fast, unless you look like Brad Pitt or you're hung like Ron Jeremy.

One thing I like to avoid though, personally, I never date anyone I work with. You're just asking for trouble there.

Good luck. Oh yeah, rent Swingers too.

Do something about it, you have to. If you don't you'll kill yourself for not knowing what she would have said. And if she turns you down, KILL HER!

The perfect girl.

You probably don't love her like you think you do. It's nice to think you do, it gives you hope and something to think about. You're only in love with the idea of her. Not the real her. But what you don't know is she's not as cool as you think. You usually ignore those little things, but the truth is, they'll get on your nerves if you hang out with her more. She smokes when she drinks. She drinks when she smokes. She's a tease, she treats all guys the way she treats you. She makes you feel special, so you think she's special. But if you look close enough her nose is crooked and she puts too much make-up on her eyes. Her hips show that she'll gain a lot of weight in her twenties, and god damn, would it kill her to wear a skirt every now and then? The truth is, she's only as beautiful as you make her out to be, and the minute you start to notice these little things, it'll never be the same. She'd just as soon fuck your best friend as she'd fuck you, but deep down, you know she'd never fuck you anyway. You'll never want to be friends with her friends, and she honestly doesn't want to be friends with yours, either. Her smile lights up the room, but when she's not there, she makes you feel depressed and sad and alone. And the truth is, she won't be there, and she'll just make you feel depressed and sad and alone, unless you get another hit. She's over-rated in your own mind, she's a fucking tease who doesn't know when to stop, and she has a boy friend down-state that you never even knew about.

Well, that's been my experience anyway.

haha i love reading all these things and speaking as a girl you guys are just all wrong about what we want. we dont need wit and charm and we dont need to be tricked into liking you, we want a friend an equal, and for all that like what she likes bullshit god that pisses me off, if someone agrees with everything about you then how can you have a good converstion, being perfect is boring, its good at first but gets really old really fast. Just be our friend, and after you get to that stage just talk to us, ask what we think, if you and this girl are really friends then she wont make it "strange" unless shes dumb and not worth being around. girls deal with guys liking them all the time. it will be fine, just talk to her.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by well [/i]
[B]The perfect girl.

You probably don't love her like you think you do. It's nice to think you do, it gives you hope and something to think about. You're only in love with the idea of her. Not the real her. But what you don't know is she's not as cool as you think. You usually ignore those little things, but the truth is, they'll get on your nerves if you hang out with her more. She smokes when she drinks. She drinks when she smokes. She's a tease, she treats all guys the way she treats you. She makes you feel special, so you think she's special. But if you look close enough her nose is crooked and she puts too much make-up on her eyes. Her hips show that she'll gain a lot of weight in her twenties, and god damn, would it kill her to wear a skirt every now and then? The truth is, she's only as beautiful as you make her out to be, and the minute you start to notice these little things, it'll never be the same. She'd just as soon fuck your best friend as she'd fuck you, but deep down, you know she'd never fuck you anyway. You'll never want to be friends with her friends, and she honestly doesn't want to be friends with yours, either. Her smile lights up the room, but when she's not there, she makes you feel depressed and sad and alone. And the truth is, she won't be there, and she'll just make you feel depressed and sad and alone, unless you get another hit. She's over-rated in your own mind, she's a fucking tease who doesn't know when to stop, and she has a boy friend down-state that you never even knew about.

Well, that's been my experience anyway. [/B][/QUOTE]

[b]I could not FUCKING agree more.[/b] That's my current experience.

god you guys are sad....i'm about to cry

Ariel... I am not a woman, don't want to be, am happy with my penis, and most of all don't think I will ever understand women... but, sadly, in my own experience, and in many of my friends experiences, you would be in the minority, that is to say that many women don't want the things that you apparently want... nobody's the same... but generally women do want the things you say they don't.

Women do want wit and charm. I agree they don't want to be tricked, but that's a given, as men don't want to be tricked either, and I suppose dogs and cats don't like being tricked either, and well I think you catch my drift. No one likes to be tricked, however human sexuality, in particular male/female interaction is often based on deceit, trickery, false ideals, impossible truths, etc... otherwise, how could anyone ever envision their "perfect mate"?

Sometimes women want friends, but if that is the case, then that is a different issue. A friend is not a lover, but a lover can be a friend. Men generally don't like the term friend because it usually means you are the guy who is on hold until she leaves the other guy in her life... a back-up lover. It can also mean someone to talk to like a "girlfriend" to a girl, but no man wants to really be a "girlfriend". Some men enjoy talking with women for no other reason than friendship, but don't be fooled... most are in it 'just in case'... meaning, who knows what could happen. I've never met a single man who turned down sex when a so-called female "friend" offered... unless he was gay, not interested in sex at all, or had some other issues overwhelming him, like depression or anxiety, fear, disillusionment, or even just was embarassed of themselves... whatever, numerous reasons could be possible, but chances are they won't say no.

Look around you. How many people in this world do you really trust? I mean REALLY trust. Now... how many people do you think tell the truth... all the time. Be it any lie, small or big, people lie. If they tell you that you look nice when you know you don't, they're lying. No matter what people say, no matter what their intentions... we are lied to and tricked every day, so what makes love or sex any different?

As far as agreeing goes, I'm sort of in a grey area on this one... if you want a relationship to work, it doesn't have to be agree on everything, but sometimes it does. Then again sometimes it is better not to agree on anything, as this creates conflict and conflict creates emotion and emotion increases feeling... you know, the whole we fight all the time, but I love 'em scenario, make-up sex, etc... but it seems that there is also those that during the first stages of a relationship, when feelings are sort of swept-away by lust and desire, we often do agree on much more than should be truthfully acknowledged. Hell... I don't know everything, but I do know I got needs... and if those needs aren't met I'm out the door. So that's how I live my life. I win some, I lose some. Sometimes I get dumped for it, but that's a part of it all. Nothing truly good lasts forever. Everything you create will be destroyed. Everything you love will die. In this case, on a long enough time line... every relationship will go to shit.... so enjoy it while it lasts...

So try and remember... when it comes to love... the dice are always loaded. The game ain't always played straight. Everyone crosses their fingers. Good guys rarely win. The fight is usually fixed. The fighter been paid to go down. The poor stay poor, and the rich get richer. You're gonna feel like your dog died sooner or later. Being faithful is subjective, give or take a night or two. It's always gonna be now or never. The deal is sometimes rotten. Knowing when to fold, the key. Sometimes the scene is dead. Sometimes it's raining cooze...

When it comes to love we're all in trouble. It's a bloody mess. It's always threatening to come apart. Take one last look at love, before it blows. How lonely does it get? There is no answer to that. But a man never got a woman back, not by begging on his knees, I mean, I'd howl at her beauty and crawl on the floor, claw at my heart and come begging back for more... but then I'd just be a masochist, more in love with being abused than in love with any woman...

Think about it this way; which would be worse, asking and being turned down, or not asking at all and feeling you never took the chance?

You know, I said the same thing earlier, Joe the Coat, and now that you mention it, it made think some more. I really wonder which would be worse.

Personally I just ask, but then again I often do things just to do them, and I don't mind rejection. But you think about it... generally being rejected [asking and being turned down] doesn't feel good and you have to live with it the rest of your life... and not even trying [not asking at all and feeling you never took the chance] doesn't feel good and you have to live with it the rest of your life...

...so basically, either way you're fucked, BUT, if you ask and get a positive response, you are in essence hitting two tits with one tongue, or birds with stones if you would rather... and the payoff is well worth the risk, as a positive result can not only negate the questioning and wondering, but has the abilty to make you feel even better about yourself than before.

Self-esteem and assurance are important to anything you do...self-destruction, self-reliance, self-control... and only through taking certain risks which may cause certain "doom" can we ever become stronger. Whether the results are good or bad, it is always beneficial. You know how it goes, Palahniuk-people... self-improvement is masturbation, but self-destruction...

Tearing down in order to raise anew. Kinda like one of those ancient eastern proverbs... you know... everything in reverse, like "he who takes initiative in the holy quest for the sacred vagina, the vagina will take the initiative with him"... or something like that, yeah, um... yeah...

-["So here I am. This is as good as it gets. Take it or leave it.
As if I don't care what she thinks." - Survivor]

[This was written in response to Ariel's last post which she apparently has now deleted... it was directly before this one, and she questioned why I was cynical about love... Funny I got in the shower and it was there and got out, and poof, she hit the delete button... ;)]

I love love, so to speak. I've been in my share of great relationships, long-term even, marriage even, one-night stands even, divorce even... I've seen most all there is when it comes to male/female relationships, both normal and abnormal... and I don't quite understand your logic in saying less than two has no room to speak, but as it doesn't matter as I've been dating and married and divorced and dating, etc... since I was in my teens and am now 28 years old, I am well beyond that ridiculous number.

I may be cynical about love, and pessimistic about relationships, but that doesn't mean I don't go into every new one with a fresh perspective. I just look at reality. Chances are things won't work out. Chances are you will never meet a Ms. Right, or in your case, Mr. Right. Soulmates don't exist. And beyond even those things, I am a romantic. I look for love and passion and excitement and all those good things, but I don't ever expect them to just pop out of thin air like I deserve them or am, fuck forbid, entitled to them, because none of us are entitled to anything in this world. Not really, and sitting around saying one day the love of my life will come and all will be well is just wishful thinking. Most people end up alone during old age. Divorce rates are on the rise. Casual sex is harder to come by. Diseases spread just like love. Nothing is wine and roses... not anymore.

I'm not making a strange, irrational statement when I comment that we live in a fucked-up world, just like it's not wierd to say that love is not only blind but full of pitfalls. I look around me and say what I see. I never said I was always right. I never said I know more than anyone else. I'm just writing from my heart, what I truly believe. If you believe differently than so be it. Good for you. Best of luck.

Like it says under your post, Ariel... "Death is certain, Life is Not"... well, if you believe that, which I do believe that, then life is not certain... so, if life is not certain, then how do you know I'm being cynical about love? Isn't love a part of life? Wouldn't that make love uncertain too? How do you know that love is positive, not negative? You are merely speculating, just like me, making educated assumptions based on my own experiences, just like you do. You don't know me, I don't know you... I can't spell it out for you any simpler...

It's interesting how you mention "upset and pissy" at the end of your post, Ariel, and how that will get a guy dumped. Not true... I happen to be a very outgoing, easygoing, and usually not upset person, but I've known many women who talk about how they love their men or ex's or just talking in general about men who are pessimists... that's just nuts... how can you say that pessimists don't have relationships or get laid? That's impossible. The world is full of them. Not everyone happy in the world or in a good relationship is an optimist, and as such love is possible for anyone... no matter how "pissy" or "upset" they may be, and vice-versa...

This whole "swimming in the goodness" idea of yours [Ariel] is absolutely right and I already said that earlier in other terms... something to the effect of "enjoy it while it lasts"... so in that we do agree. Like certain people in this world, I am sick and tired of embracing all that is "cozy". I don't need more "feel-good" vibes, there's already more than enough of that crap in the world... it's smothering. I read Chuck Palahniuk, for instance because it is challenging to think about and everything not "cozy" and "feel-good". Maybe you prefer "Chicken Soup for the Soul", but I think it's more "Chicken Shit for the Ass"... that is to say, the easy way out is to deny that life and love aren't always gonna be good, in fact, most of the time things will inevitably be fucked-up, but to embrace reality... to not turn your back on the bad stuff in the world... to deal with these things... that is what interests me...

what kills them for you, brock? computer time?

Originally posted by plastic:

"what kills them for you, brock? computer time?"

Here we go again... plastic... if you wish to ask a question of me, please be specific. What kills what? Computer time how? Are you asking some kind of sarcastic, rhetorical question that makes no sense? Please... be specific... I can't answer a question that isn't even a question. You may as well change the radiohead quote under your post to "Who invited?" or "You anyway?"... it would make as much sense as your question. Besides, I really don't get why you ask me questions, or in this case non-questions, when you don't want an answer from me... go figure... some people... besides, I don't know how strange this may seem to you, but some of us don't require epic amounts of time to transfer our thoughts onto the screen via the computer... it's called "typing", and it usually occurs, at least for me after I read someone else's post and decide to respond, my response already flowing in my mind, no need to try and figure out what to say. I like to call it "thinking". This "thinking" is then applied to my response, by a magical "thinking" device known as "reasoning". This device allows me to actually make sense, and form complete sentences, or ask questions that are actual questions. When I am done with my response I leave and come back later to see if a reply is in order, as in if someone else has replied back to me. Thus, the basic format for what is called a "discussion". If you need more info, let me know...

maybe, but i'm glad to see you caught on...about 30 minutes after the initial post.

yeah the quote is abstract, you'll pick abstract thought up at the formal operations stage of cognitive development. it may not make sense now, but wait until you're at the mental age of 9 or 10. the world gets [i]a lot[/i] more exciting.

frankly, this superiority complex is getting old fast. don't insult my intelligence, just because i don't feel like writing an essay every time i get a thought on something doesn't make me any less capable than you are. if you wanna discuss than fine, but you can save it if everything you say is an attempt to talk down to me or anyone else for that matter.

Don't assume I was talking down to anyone but you in this case, plastic. I realize that you are trying to disassociate aka redirect you own personal angst by using fellow cult members to identify yourself with, which just isn't true. I was talking to you and only you. Now, with that stated, YOU wrote a response DIRECTLY TO ME hence the name "Brock" in your post, therefore YOU WANTED to talk to me. I did NOT WRITE YOU until after the fact. Also, keep in mind that you did not DISCUSS anything whatsoever to do with this topic. You merely made a remark about me, so please don't pretend like you added something to this conversation...

Like I have said time and time again plastic, I don't feel I am better than anyone here, probably just the opposite, but the mere fact that you see things that way shows me that you think every post I write is about you, even though your name is not mentioned, and shows me that you have an inferiority complex. In your words, "fucking chill". Calm down, no one is trying to harm you, plastic, but it must be said that if you are going to make smart-ass comments directed at me, then I most assuredly will respond directly to you in a similar fashion. So next time you decide to post something completely off-topic in an attempt to get me to spend time writing to you personally, that all you need do is ask.. I'll be there for you in your time of need...

It sounds like you see this interaction with me as some sort of contest, apparently timing me and waiting with anticipation for me to respond, but I have to inform you I don't sit and salivate waiting for you to write to me, in fact, just the opposite, I was doing something else... I don't know why... I guess I'm just not infatuated with you in the manner you seem to not be able to live without me and my responses to you.

Congratulations for achieving your goal however... you have changed the subject off of a viable subject and made it about you again... I suspect it is your way of getting the attention lacking elsewhere in your life. I feel for you, I really do... and would be more than happy to give of my spare time to help you in any way possible. If it's attention you want, I will try my very best to direct more replies toward you. If it's anything beyond that, I am truly sorry. I have an affinity towards women, ya know, the opposite sex. Still I'm glad you're here, on this site, as it's so wonderful to have such differences of opinion, conflicting to a certain extent, yes, but worthwhile nonetheless. I appreciate all opinions, and all are as valid as mine... so please continue. I only say this in closing for now, that if you want my respect, then I expect the same treatment... otherwise... all is fair game...

brock, you're more than capable of making intelligent points, but you really don't know how to argue. i'd point out about five different points in that last one where you contradicted yourself but my infatuation has grown weak. catch ya later bro.

So... aerostar... any idea whatcha gonna do about this chick you dig? You've seen some opinions on the subject by quite a few Cult members and I think we'd all, for sure, be interested in knowing the final outcome dude... In the immortal words of Hubert Selby Jr's original Marlon Wayans in the novel "Requiem For A Dream", "jus' a tas'e, yo, tha's all I iz askin' fo'..."

nothing is as good as it is in your fantasy. (not direct quote) i totally agree with the above. But maybe thats cause I never take chances .......maybe things could be that good. There is only one way to find out. ....but, what if....

p.s. see Amelie, totally empowering

p.s.s. you are great "plastic". i love how you keep provoking "brock". it is quite entertaining. and i think the cartoon is sexy;)

and "well" you are incredibly shallow:
"But if you look close enough her nose is crooked"
"Her hips show that she'll gain a lot of weight in her twenties, and god damn, would it kill her to wear a skirt every now and then?"
"Ariel" is right, "being perfect is boring" of course you will never find the "right" girl if you keep picking them apart with a fine toothed comb!

ok, another thing about love: Ever notice how true the oedipus rex theory is? How people are usally attrached to people much like their parent of opposite sex? I know I'm guilty. It's kind of freaky when you think about it. But I guess when you are growing up that is the only sexuality you see so that image must be sexy, so we think.

Chichi, that's just such an ignorant thing to say. "You are shallow." As if you can really judge my character from something I wrote on a fucking message board. Don't try to insult me. You really need me to explain what I wrote? Was it really that complicated? Pay attention, because I really get tired of repeating myself to people that can't listen.

I was saying that no one is perfect. It's so common for guys to think that there is one perfect girl, who they've identified years ago, and if they can't be with her, they don't want to be with anyone. Believe it or not, a LOT of guys have or have had this mentality regarding women. My point is, you're only fooling yourself. Because really, she's NOT perfect. She's got personality flaws that you don't see, because you only see her from a distance. And when you do get close enough, you'll notice that she's not as beautiful as you made her out to be in your mind.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't hang out with a girl because she has a crooked nose. I'm saying THERE IS NO PERFECT. This guy probably has this perfect image of a girl in his head, and overlooks all of the little details that would count against anyone else. I'm saying, get over it. You can ask her out, and maybe you should. But chances are, you don't know her nearly as well as you think you do, and you could be in for a rude awakening. I don't know why my first post needs any further clarifying. God damn.

PERFECT IS A STATE OF MIND, NOT A STATE OF REALITY.

Get it ChiChi?

Spread a rumour that she wants in your pants, then question her about it. That way you can test her reaction while still remaining a "secret admirer".
I'm joking by the way. I have no idea what to do.

ok... came to this post cause i thought it was a joke...
but shit, maybe it is... believing in love is like believing in the
freakin' tooth fairy... a besides that if it is real, it's probably
not worth your time.

Brock: I'm askin her. Definetly. I gotta. I have to. You know? I'm pursuin a dream you know, grabbin a spoon. And sure, I'll tell you guys how it all turned out, good or bad, yes or no. I'm just lookin for the right moment.

So thank you all for helping me out, you make some serious sense. Thank you, thank you.

Originally posted by ChiChi:

"ok, another thing about love: Ever notice how true the oedipus rex theory is? How people are usally attrached to people much like their parent of opposite sex? I know I'm guilty. It's kind of freaky when you think about it. But I guess when you are growing up that is the only sexuality you see so that image must be sexy, so we think."

Interesting point you bring up, ChiChi... two different concepts however....

An "Oedipus Complex", ChiChi, has it's basis in the mythological story of a young man who killed his father, the king, in order to marry his mother, the queen, and become king himself... to cut a long story short. It's often used in a Freudian sense to explain, children and young people who develop strong sexual or emotional feelings with a parent or older person. It applies to same sex as well as different sex relationships, and is most common when a young man develops a bond between himself and his mother, or vice-versa...

It doesn't mean that they actually have sex or have feelings toward them that are sexual only... but it does mean that they, in a sense, are "in love" with them, no matter how it is expressed, and by love it doesn't mean just traditional forms. It can be innocent or sordid in nature, and differs from relationship to relationship...

I think you may have confused it with finding a sexual partner who resembles you're parent or parents in manner, ChiChi. Sure lots of people often times end up with people very much like their parents, but this has nothing to do with an Oedipus Complex... more to do with identifying characteristics that make you feel comfort and security, or even the opposite of comfort and security. That is why women who had abusive fathers often times end up with abusive boyfriends or husbands. In the same sense, men who were treated as so-called "mama's boy's" by their mothers while growing up often end up with dominant female figures, girlfriends, and wives, etc... it doesn't even have to do with just abusive relationships or loving ones either... it can be any number of variations on the theme...

You see often times our most susceptible memories of development.. sexually, mentally and physically... the most vivid identifications we experience during different stages of development have to do with our parents in one way or another. Whether it be by them standing in judgement, or never being around, or awkward situations... whatever... it's all about things learned at a young age. Feelings of abandonment, denial, oppression, or even the reverse, which are all important to who we end up with in later days of our lives. Just a thought ChiChi... and keep in mind these early experiences effect every aspect of our lives... from fetish to normality, from reasoning to denial... it's all important...

... and aerostar... I think you are making the right decision... but then again, what do I know...

... and in my own experience, there never is a "right" moment... there are moments that are better than others, like don't ask her after her grandfather dies... for example... but that's pretty much a no-brainer... waiting for the "right" moment can also be interpreted as procrastination aka putting off doing what you know you should or want to do because you feel incapable of doing it at the time... just relax and do it... it's not brain surgery... you won't die from it... at least not literally... and it doesn't cost you anything... in fact, whatever the answer may be, you will be gaining confidence and an ability to take care of business... next time around it won't be so hard... because the more one does the seemingly impossible or dangerous even, the more one becomes accustomed to it... like a stunt man or something if you need a mental image... face death enough times and it becomes routine, even boring it's so easy...

There is surely nothing other than the single purpose of the present moment. A man's whole life is a succession of moment after moment. If one fully understands the present moment, there will be nothing else to do, and nothing else to pursue. Live being true to the single purpose of the moment . Everyone lets the present moment slip by, then looks for it as though he thought it were somewhere else. No one seems to have noticed this fact. But grasping this firmly, one must pile experience upon experience. And once one has come to this understanding he will be a different person from that point on, though he may not always bear it in mind. When one understands this settling into single-mindedness well, his affairs of love will never fail him...

The Man in Black was right... Love is a burnin’ thing, And it makes a fiery ring Bound by wild desire -- I fell into a ring of fire. I fell into a burnin’ ring of fire -- I went down, down, down And the flames went higher, And it burns, burn, burns, The ring of fir, the ring of fire. The taste of love is sweet When hearts like ours meet. I fell for you like a child -- Oh, but the fire ran wild. I fell into a burnin’ ring of fire -- I went down, down, down And the flames went higher, And it burns, burn, burns, The ring of fir, the ring of fire...

Libido, inferiority complex, stinko, blotto, free sex, bathtub gin, monkey glands, Karl Marx... the language of love... god... what a term, ha... "free sex"... like such a thing exists... whatever... we all pay for sex... just not always with money... that means everyone...

So what ever happened?

I need my fix.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Joe the Coat [/i]
[B]Think about it this way; which would be worse, asking and being turned down, or not asking at all and feeling you never took the chance? [/B][/QUOTE]

"Daddy?"
"Yes, son?"
"What does [i]'regret'[/i] mean?"
"Well, son, the funny thing about regret is, it's better to regret something you [b]have[/b] done than it is to regret something you [b]haven't[/b] done..."

no wonder none of you guys can get a girl. shit. if this is how you act in public, the "chicks" must run screaming. and then you blame the girls for not being perfect enough for you! how sad!

anyway, as one of the approximately 5 women on this board, i just want to tell aerostar that he should tell the girl how he feels. it's better to regret something you did than something you didn't do.

that's all i have to say. you guys can flame me, but i wouldn't waste your breath.

Women don't go for Alan Alda, although they always say they do. Then once Jack (as in Jackass) comes along, they're all over him. Go read "The Art of Seduction". Everybody's heard of the asshole theory. C'mon, confidence wins, nice guys finish last, blah blah blah.