Kurt Vonnegut

Galapagos is one of "the books that changed my life" but I find it hard to believe that there isn't already a Vonnegut thread.

There are many, many KV threads. Normally I'd just say something like, "Use the search function," but I don't even know where the search function IS on this version of the site, so I can't really blame the guy for not knowing.

I like KV. Even though i've only read SH5. I want to get into more of his stuff eventually. The movie version for Mother Night I thought was jaw-dropping intense, I can't even imagine how great the book would be, since the book is usually better anyways.
Every time he comes up, i always try to pimp Harrison Bergeron too. it's just a low budget made for cable movie from one of his short stories, but they really did a good job with it. it's sort of like Idiocracy only better and without all the narration.

also, I think it should be the other way around; Chuck Palahniuk is a Vonnegut-like author.

Anyone read Venus on the Half Moon Shelf by Kilgor Trout aka Vonnegut?

I haven't read anything by Vonnegut that I didn't like. Galapagos is at the bottom of the totem pole, to me, because the whole quote thing annoyed me on a personal level for the same reason it annoyed me in Pgymy: It's just too easy. Anyone can better a novel by throwing brilliant quotes all through it, and it's been done enough now that it just isn't impressive. We know there's a quote that will go along perfectly with any situation or idea.

This writer, I appreciate his style more than his work. Bluebeard, Cat's Cradle, Breakfast of Champions, Slaughterhouse-Five-- they're all good for the same reasons to me, they all have Vonnegut's humor and his way of interconnecting characters, his way of foretelling in the beginning what is going to happen and who is going to die and then telling the story anyway, and somehow making it exciting to learn how things ended up the way you know they will. He has his lines, and so it goes, hi-ho, etc, which make him sound a bit like Palahniuk's smirking rage, sorry mom, sorry God, give me vanity, flash.

Where he excels beyond having great style, and builds a wonderful novel, is in Cat's Cradle and Bluebeard, where the characters seem more vivid and the plot more alive. My favorite, I think, is Bluebeard. Vonnegut is known as a humanitarian but all too often he uses his voice rather to criticize humanity, like in Breakfast of Champions, going on at length about the cruelty of man. Bluebeard, I think, is his key humanitarian work. One of his few really happy endings, and this novel is about a prisoner who gets released, an old man who is hated by his own son. He writes well of old men with varicose veins who have every reason to be miserable yet still indulge in the every day beauty of the world.

Outside of judging his novels as complete works, there are parts in many of his lesser novels that peak to a point where Vonnegut is as good as Vonnegut gets. Breakfast of Champions was no Cat's Cradle, but the part in that where God builds a man a little Eden, and the man slides down a waterfall and lands in the water every single day, and while doing so he yells out one random line, and God never misses this because He wants to hear what nonsense the man yells, because it's unpredictable and thus unique to the lord, who built this Eden just to hear man's random gibberish--that's Vonnegut at his best, and there's something like that in just about every one of his novels. Just a well written page or two that's both intellectually stimulating and remarkably humorous, dug out of the insight of a wise old man. When he isn't delivering like that, he keeps you afloat with his master narrative.

Next for me is Mother Night.

Breakfast of Champions is great.

When he died a few years ago I made the library put up a display of his books in his honor. Most of the people didn't even know who he was.

I imagine everyone from my generation knows him, if not from a single one of his books, from showing up in Back to School with Dangerfield.

I didn't even know he was in it.

I'd argue to say that Palahniuk is "Vonnegut-like" rather than the other way around... But whatever. In my opinion, Galapagos was some of his best writing, however not his best story. If you are fascinated by the guts of authors, you absolutely must read the July 1973 Playboy interview. Brilliant. And any of his auto-biographical work. Brilliant.

And yes, the "Back to School" piece. If I remember correctly, Dangerfield was "buying" his college degree, and hired Vonnegut to write his essay on Breakfast of Champions, or Slaughterhouse Five, or another title. Anyhow, the ironic humor was that the college professor refuted the essay as complete bologna, and claimed that Dangerfield had completely mis-interpretted the novel, when in fact the essay was from the actual author.

Nobody has mentioned 'Sirens of Titan'. That is the Vonnegut novel I enjoyed the most. I've read it at least 3 times. It has a great central character who travels all over the solar system, with a stint as a mind-controlled space G.I. (written Eisenhower era, 1959). The surprise ending engineered by a Tralfamadorian still makes me well up like a little girl. There was some buzz that Mike Judge was interested in filming this, but went with 'Idiocracy' which has some similar themes. Too bad. Think I'll read it again this weekend!
Also, wasn't 'Venus on the Half-Shell' ghosted by Philip Jose Farmer? Kilgore Trout was a Vonnegut character, but I don't think he would have taken the time off from his 'serious' writing to do that book, plus he was a 'name' author when that came out and was too well established to ghost a book as a stunt. I've always believed the Kilgore Trout character was based on the Fifties era work of Philip K Dick.

i read 'hocus pocus' first, and i loved it so i read a bunch of his books. 'timequake' is a good one too, hilarious. i think i was 17 or 18 when i was reading him, it's been a while.

Me.

Vonnegut, and Slaughterhouse Five in particular, is the main reason I love to read. I first picked up SH5 when I began college. Its now fifteen years later, and I've never been the same. He's one of my absolute favorite authors.

An excellent book by him that never seems to get mentioned is God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater. Written during what many consider to be his "peak" (this one came out in between Cat's Cradle and SH5), its a gem. Check it out.

No Kilgore was his alias as well.

slaughter house 5 is like his most popular book,but for some reason I can not get into that book at all,started it like 3 or 4 times but always lose intrest about 50 pages in. The other 8 or 9 books Ive read Ive really enjoyed though.

side thought- I think vonneget would have been a much more succesful writer if his books had better titles(and better summeries on the back cover)

Slaughterhouse-5 and Breakfast of Champions are, I think, his best-known work, and they're my least favorite. Got to agree with Night that Bluebeard is one of his better ones. It's on the other end of the Vonnegut spectrum from Breakfast, which felt to me, at times, like a lot of arm-waving and shouting of "Look at me! I'm Vonnegut! I'm wacky and modernist!"

Cat's Cradle, though, is hands-down my favorite by him. Wonderful. Probably helps that I found it at that point in my life when I was just getting into literature again, just discovering the Vonneguts and Palahniuks and Kerouacs that would lead me to the Baers and Clevengers and Thompsons. It's my theory that a person's first Vonnegut is usually the favorite, though I know a lot of people who started with Slaughterhouse-5 and just never finished, never went back to the man's writing. A shame, I think.

I just finished reading Mother Night. I recommend this book to EVERYBODY on this board. Its one of Kurt's best. I'm ashamed that its taken me this long to read it.

Kilgore Trout was his alter ego, the himself life i think he expected and maybe deserved. a basement and no recognition.
remember when he let Bill out of the cage and Bill flew back in? that made me cry.

The Sirens of Titan, Cat's Cradle, and one nobody mentions, Slapstick. i LOVE Slapstick (obviously). and as far as Sirens of Titan goes, i have never forgotten the word "chronosynclastic infundibulum". never, i always remember it, the way kids easily remember that long one from Mary Poppins.

What I like about Vonnegut is that each of his books really hone in on a particular issue. I've given most of my Vonnegut books away because I always feel a need to share them with people they apply to. I gave BlueBeard to an artist, Sirens of Titan to a Douglas Adams freak, Cat's Cradle to a hippy, and Mother Night to a racist (I was hoping it might change his mind - I just told him it was a funny book about Nazis to get him interested). I always fly through a Vonnegut book after completing a classic which was particularly time consuming. Reading Vonnegut never feels like work. They're modern Aesop's fables. My favorite Vonnegut saying is that the only reason to believe in God is music. It's not my only reason, but it's at the top of the list.

I only have four more of his books to read (Galapagos, Deadeye Dick, Palm Sunday, and Jailbird) and I've actually been putting them off because it's going to make me sad to know there's nothing else to look forward to. Chuck Palahniuk is kinda my replacement Vonnegut - what I read between essential monstrosities like Dickens and Rand because it's both clever and easy.

Anyone read Venus on the Half Moon Shelf by Kilgor Trout aka Vonnegut?

Not Vonnegut. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilgore_Trout#.22Works.22_by_Kilgore_Trout

Well, I've just finished cat's Cradle.
and by god, that was amazing.
one of my favorite novels of all time.

i disliked slaughterhouse though.
anyone with similiar tastes want to suggest the next one for me to read?
i dont want to read house of leaves alone. its too big to not have anyother book going at the same time.

im thinking sirens of titan or bluebeard?

Sirens of Titan. Slapstick. those are the 2 i always suggest, but they do happen to fit quite well with your vonnegut taste.

ah. i bought sirens and bluebeard.
thanks for the suggestion. im reading titans now.

Thanks for saying that.
I was reading this thread, and this is what inspired me to pick up Cat's Cradle after finishing and not caring for slughterhouse.

So, to prove your theory wrong, second book Ive read by him is my favorite.

Hope you like Bluebeard! It's probably my favorite. Sirens I need to reread; I read it so long ago now that I don't really remember how I felt about it.

But my brother loves Vonnegut. He was always telling me how good his books are. So I picked up Slaughterhouse 5 and read it in one day. Since then - I'm a fan.

Almost the exact opposite of your theory there. lol

I really didn't like Cat's Cradle at all... I actually created a thread right after i finished the book here in the book club section, explaining why I didn't enjoy it. Basically it was just way too unrealistic for my taste, couldn't relate to it a single bit...

I do have Slapstick in my library though and I am planning to give it a shot, because I feel it's not really fair to give up on the author after one book.

I wouldn't suggest it if you didn't like Cat's Cradle. I would recommend Hocus Pocus, God Bless You Mr. Rosewater, BlueBeard, or Mother Night. They are ones which rely less on the absurd and fantastical and are much more grounded in reality. I loved Slapstick but I found it much less plausible than Cat's Cradle. All of his books require a stretch of the imagination of some sort but some more than others. Of what I've read Slapstick and Sirens of Titan seemed to be the most out there so you'll probably want to avoid them. If Vonnegut's humor grows on you, give 'em a shot.

Oh, and to really throw you for a loop, Slaughterhouse-five is more absurd than Cat's Cradle but is autobiographical. Go figure =o

Which one is the one where he has that whole "My name is Mud" spiel?

Every time I flip through this thread it makes me want to go back and reread KV; it's been so many years that I don't think I have any of his books anymore. So I'm thinking now Which should I get first? Start at the ones I know I loved most? or give another shot to ones that that didn't knock me over? or, maybe, the ones that I just remember least?

Hmmm...

Aaand, back to the OP...

How do we see KV as CP-like? What's similar in their work? Or is it more sociological than literary?

Also, based upon characterizations in their respective books, what can we infer about their views of Humanity as a species? I tend to think KV truly loved people but was sorely disappointed with where we have ended up as a society and feared for our future - not an unreasonable position for one of his generation, whereas while CP has denied being a nihilist, I don't see him losing sleep over our collective destiny.

Thoughts?

My suggestion would be to re-read the ones that you know you loved most. His books are so re-readable, and like all great literature, your reactions to them change as you age. After you get back into the mode, move to the other ones. I haven't read any of Kurt's post-Breakfast of Champions work, but I'm going back to re-read Slaughterhouse Five, Cats Cradle and BOC before venturing into Slapstick, Jailbird, and the rest.

Are we really calling Vonnegut "great literature"?

I might have said yes a year and a half ago, but no. Not quite. I imagine in a year I'll say far from it.

I've never understood the Vonnegut hype. He was clearly a clever guy, and a fun writer, but none of the books of his that I've read (Slaughterhouse 5, Cat's Cradle, Breakfast of Champions, Palm Sunday, Bagombo Snuff Box, and a couple more) really amazed me. I was left thinking that Vonnegut isn't all that great, even though he's come up with some lovely ideas.

part is in Cat's Cradle. Bokononism.

Half way through Sirens of Titan. Not loving it yet...
Maybe I havent given it a chance yet.
Anyways, I'm starting to doubt Ill love anything nearly as much as Cat's Cradle by Vonnegut.

but there was a tiny door. how can you not love something the moment you are introduced to a tiny door????

hah, i don't know. i really don't know.
i finished the book, anyways. it was alright, but i never loved it. Cat's Cradle was loads better. not sure if any of his books will ever live up to it. Even he loves Cat's Cradle the most.

ftfy.

My ex has been telling me to read Vonnegut for months now, he's already beginning to annoy me, or she's annoying me, but anyway I'm annoyed because she's always mentioning it, then I feign interest and somehow she always knows I'm faking it! Anyway, I need to pick up one of his books sometime, where's a good place to start?

(By "he" I mean Vonnegut, not my ex, my ex is definitely a woman, or a harpy)

I'd say Breakfast of Champions.

Probably a very good call there.