Interesting...

Holy Fucking shit.

no man, I can't fucking handle it, not now.

do me a favor disx. send this in a letter or email to your congressperson. let it actually get onto the desk of someone who can do something about it--even if they don't, they've had to look at it.

Heh. Letters to congressmen are pointless.

We're way past that. It's time for revolution.

Or just a total collapse.

Meh.

Give me a historylesson. Why is US 'friends' with Israel? Oil?

Yes.

here is another take on this story. it is a little bit more personal

[url]http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=15391[/url]

isreal has no oil AT ALL

the only reason we are friends with isreal is because we helped them get back their land in the 40's

I know. Silly answer to a silly question.

We are also friends with Israel because the Zionists have a strong lobby group in Washington

It could have something to do with the fact that they're a democratic and western-friendly state in a region where both those qualities are rare, but that would be assuming it's not the fault of all them damn jew bastards who control hollywood, the banks, and the tides. And don't tell me the last one isn't true, because I read it in the Weekly World News, and you only need one source of information to know everything.

United States is a terrorist nation and Israel is a terrorist nation.

we are friends with israel because we feel guilty about world war ii and you know...the whole holocaust thing. where we knew where the rail lines were to auschwitz, where we knew about everything that was happening to jews in europe, when we turned away a ship full of jewish refugees, etc. we let 6 million of them die, so i guess we felt like the least we could do would be to give them their own country.

i'm not saying that it's right but that's why it happened.so think about that before you say we should help the palestinians--look what happened when we "helped" the jews. personally i think that complete containment and neutrality of us foreign policy--total, pre WWI isolationism--would be the best thing.

See, this is exactly why people end up turning into actual Jew-haters.

People always have to turn criticism of Israel into criticism for the entire Jewish race. These 'defenders' of Israel are CREATING Jew-haters. People get so infuriated by constantly being labeled an anti-Semite when all they are speaking out against is the Israeli government, that they start buying this horseshit about Jews controlling the media. I mean, it is kind of fishy how absurdly biased our media is towards Israel, but it's all politics and money, not some Jewish conspiracy. Problem is, people scream anti-Semite when someone complains about the IDF and it just confuses the whole situation and people who are opposed to Israel's policies get frustrated and end up falling into real 'Jew-hating'.

Not anti-Semites, though, as that term is bullshit, a Semite is ANYONE of Middle Eastern descent. Hell not all Jews are even of Middle Eastern descent. If anything, you could say Israel is anti-Semitic, as they're slaughtering the Palestinians, true Semites. Anyhow...

Anytime someone criticizes Israel they are met with "omg u must be krazy jew hater nazi omgomgi bet u worship hitler 4ever all the teim u no his birtehyda rite i bet u haev party on it u damn anteimseite plz stop wit ur comsrapicy theoreis i h8 tehm teheyre dum."

That's what we get when we say "Hey... Look what the IDF is up to with OUR fucking tax dollars." Which is a totally valid complaint.

No, Jews don't control the world. It's a stupid conspiracy theory that is used to smear other 'out there' ideas and make anyone who criticizes Israel's influence on the US look like an idiot.

The Zionist lobby IS a powerful force here in the US. However, it's not anymore influential than the NRA, Oil Companies, the Arms Industry and various other groups. They all collectively own our government. Some will say "Well, that's how it's supposed to work.", but they are full of shit. It is NOT supposed to work that way. Since when did We the People become We the Corporations?

Back to the point, though. Israel does have a lot of power here, but they are just one of the many groups trying to get the government to do what they want. That's why there is such a huge push for the Iraq war, everyone that owns the White House wants it, so it's happening. It's good for Israel, it's good for the Imperialists, it's good for the Oil goons, it's great for the Arms Manufacturers and the Media is having a field day with this. War = more drones latched to the TV screen, after all.

Ok, so I'm getting off topic here...

I would say that originally we befriended Israel because they were the poor victims of the Holocaust and the world had quite a great amount of sympathy for the Jews. However, the UN set out to create a state for Jews AND Palestinians, the Palestinians just never got theirs. Pro-Israelis will say it was because the Palestinians refused to negotiate and Pro-Palestinians will say it was because Israel was greedy and wouldn't give them a fair deal, etc. etc... The goverments on both sides want to whipe each other out and you've got the civilians caught in the crossfire, with the Palestinians suffering the worst, by far. Sucks for Israeli civilians, too, but let's face it, a few suicide bombers here and there can't possibly compare to an invading army.

Neither side is right, both sides are committing terrible attrocities, but MY money is supporting the acts of Israel, and that pisses me off. So of course I'm going to denounce Israel, they're doing this shit with MY money. It would be great if peace could be found between the two, but that's pretty idealistic, both sides are absolutely set on destroying the other and it looks like Israel will get its wish.

I repeated myself a lot in there. Sorry about that.

Kitty's right, pretty much.

Isolationism seems like the best solution. It's not 'nice', but at least we wouldn't be causing anymore problems.

Get our filthy paws out of Latin America and the rest of the 3rd World countries that we own. Pull our troops out of the hundreds of military bases we have around the globe and stop sending money to Israel. We send more money to Israel than we do to the entire continent of Africa.

Hell, Bush made such a big deal about the $14B we were sending to Africa to help fight AIDS just after we've sent $12B to Israel to help out their frail economy without even a second thought. What about our own faltering economy?

It's like what I said before... Our politicians don't act in the interest of our country, they act in the interest of their pocketbook. Who wouldn't act on a deal like this: Give a few politicians a few hundred grand and get a few billion in return? It's a sweet deal, so of course it's going to happen and of course our government is 'bought'.

Blah... I'm ranting again.

i wasn't saying anything anti semitic. and i'm not saying that we shouldn't have wanted to help the jews. but israel is a jewish state, and it was founded because of the holocaust. i don't believe there's an international jewish conspiracy and i don't think that jews are evil. the reason i said we should think about it before we help the palestinians is that when we helped the last group of oppressed people it just ended up fucking other people over. it seems like despite our best intentions we keep fucking up by getting involved. hence my isolationist theory. but i am not anti-semitic, and i wasn't calling anyone else anti-semitic.

People who are anti-Israel are not Jew haters. I have a bunch of Jewish friends who do not support Israel. I remember a few months after september 11th, the orthodox Jews in New York City marched saying that they did not support Israel either. I used to have pictures from that march, but I can't seem to find them.

I know, my first post right after yours was directed at ah... crap, who was it now. I forget and looking back takes too much effort.

The problem with helping other countries is that it's never purely a case of the good of mankind. There are always ulterior motives. Otherwise there'd be a hell of a lot more wars going on. I like to make believe that someone in command is genuinely interested in helping the people of Iraq, but even if they are, there are many many other factors as well which in all likelihood overshadow the humanitarianism.

the best laid plans of mice and men go aft agley...

That's what I think this whole war is about. Bush is a big religion
guy, so he's just killing off all the countries that are a threat to
Israel. To protect the holy land.

[IMG]http://www.outragedcomics.com/comics/deathmatch.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.outragedcomics.com/comics/probomb.jpg[/IMG]

Haha... I especially like the bottom picture how he's holding a cross.

He always brings spirituality and God into every one of his speeches.

yeah. [URL=http://www.geocities.com/christian_crusade]when i say "holy shit" i mean it literally.[/URL].

i still say wtf was she doing standing right in front of it
she could have moved

call me what you will she was a fucking moron for standing and not moving

no, um, bane? that's what you call brave.

um no insomnomaniac thats what like to call

FUCKING MORON!

do you know why isreal does not like american protestors?

BECASUE THEY HAVE NO IDEA OF WHAT THERE TALKING ABOUT!

keep telling yourself that bane. whatever.

thats ok i will you know why because im right

go check out ebaumsworld.com and look for the convo beetween an activist and an iraqi immigrant

then you will understand what i mean

or you can stay in your world of happiness and ignorance

And I'm sure I could find a pro-war idiot babbling about shit he doesn't know. Hell, I don't even have to leave this site, just go check out ill Rich. Haha. Anyhow, sure, some activists don't know what they're talking about, but that doesn't mean all of them are that way. That's a gross generalization and making generalizations and assumptions like that is one of the easiest ways to make an ass out of yourself.

eh i could care less

You could? How much less, exactly? =D

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by bane [/i]
[B]thats ok i will you know why because im right

go check out ebaumsworld.com and look for the convo beetween an activist and an iraqi immigrant

then you will understand what i mean

or you can stay in your world of happiness and ignorance [/B][/QUOTE]

ebaumsworld is hardly an intellectual site. it holds no credibility imho

i know it isnt but what that was was an intellectual conversation

Hardly.

That's the problem, most of the time, they only let the idiot activists and anti-war people speak. Rarely do you see anyone that knows what they're talking about, but when you do, they make some damn good points.

It's ridiculously easy to make one side look misinformed on TV, how do you think Jay Leno does his little Jaywalking thing? Just interview a bunch of people and only give the idiots air time... =\

::is staying in her world of happiness and ignorance::