Xbox 360

[QUOTE=JustinHolt]Microsoft lost money on XBox. They were losing money selling them at $299 a system. Their original gameplan was to infultrate the market and make a profit with XBox 360.

Nintendo, in terms of this sort of a system is 'done'. But their handheld system is still the highest selling console out there, so they can semi-afford to not sell as much of their bigger console.

Like I said before though, they should do what Sega did and create games for Sony and Microsoft.[/QUOTE]

and XBOX LIVE. they will make money on XBOX LIVE. they just killed everyone in terms of online strategy. shame on Nintendo and Playstation for letting that happen.

[QUOTE=JustinHolt]Nintendo, in terms of this sort of a system is 'done'. But their handheld system is still the highest selling console out there, so they can semi-afford to not sell as much of their bigger console.[/QUOTE]

handhelds SUCK!

handhelds should have never survived the 80s. the whole point of videogames is that you DON'T leave the house!

oh, and what the fuck is up with Nintendo''s crossover handheld-to-console strategy? that is such a waste of money.

[QUOTE=snuffy]and XBOX LIVE. they will make money on XBOX LIVE. they just killed everyone in terms of online strategy. shame on Nintendo and Playstation for letting that happen.[/QUOTE]

You are correct, they do make money off of XBox live.

I wouldn't neccesarily say shame on the other two for that though. For a younger generation of gamers, online is important. But for the generation who holds the most amount of disposable money, the thirty-somethings and parents, that isn't that big of a selling point. It will become a bigger one with time if these two systems sort of replace the computer in the right ways, but it's not an overly huge one outside of this demographic now.

[QUOTE=snuffy]handhelds SUCK!

handhelds should have never survived the 80s. the whole point of videogames is that you DON'T leave the house!

oh, and what the fuck is up with Nintendo''s crossover handheld-to-console strategy? that is such a waste of money.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. But there are millions of parents out there who will do anything to shut up their kids on a road trip. And a handheld is a lot cheaper/easier to cart around than a PS2 or XBox.

[QUOTE=JustinHolt]You are correct, they do make money off of XBox live.

I wouldn't neccesarily say shame on the other two for that though. For a younger generation of gamers, online is important. But for the generation who holds the most amount of disposable money, the thirty-somethings and parents, that isn't that big of a selling point. It will become a bigger one with time if these two systems sort of replace the computer in the right ways, but it's not an overly huge one outside of this demographic now.[/QUOTE]

it's hard to seel thirty soemthings on consoles period. i mean, they can afford those alienware systems and shit, dual processing, 30 inch viewable monitors. 3g memory, 3ghz processors, awesome graphics acceleration, the works.

still, my dream system is an XBOX 360 with DLP projector at 92 inches. damn, son!

[QUOTE=snuffy]and XBOX LIVE. they will make money on XBOX LIVE. they just killed everyone in terms of online strategy. shame on Nintendo and Playstation for letting that happen.[/QUOTE]
no they wont. they're giving away live time on the weekends for xbox360

[QUOTE=Atomos]no they wont. they're giving away live time on the weekends for xbox360[/QUOTE]

free weekends? so does the phone company. it doesn't mean they won't make money.

but you dont get free weekends unless you buy a plan (with the phone) not so with the xbox

[QUOTE=Atomos]but you dont get free weekends unless you buy a plan (with the phone) not so with the xbox[/QUOTE]

ohhhhhh. well, you may have a point there. but, i still think they are going to make money on it somehow. they have to.

[QUOTE=Atomos]but you dont get free weekends unless you buy a plan (with the phone) not so with the xbox[/QUOTE]

the majority of online gameplay is during week nights, not weekends. people are more apt to go out on weekends.

free weekends is a marketing ploy because it sounds good. they will make money off of live...

i dunno dude, weekends are usually pretty busy on the games i play

[QUOTE=Atomos]i dunno dude, weekends are usually pretty busy on the games i play[/QUOTE]

certain games maybe, but their core audience, or their biggest numbers come between 8 to midnight during week days.

it's sort of how the phone companies give you nights and weekends free. they give you about 3 hours of actual phone time that people use, and the other 5 are throw in hours when most are asleep.

it's all marketing, set up to make it look desirable.

[QUOTE=Atomos]what are u talking about the controls look EXACTLY THE SAME only white.

the playstation 3 has wireless controlers. and is just as wireless compatable.[/QUOTE]
Must be the picture i saw first, none of them had the select and start buttons on the bottom left, and the white and black on the bottom right.

also, never mind my wireless comment, is been a while since i read reports of what is going to be included in the PS3.

I am still going to buy them both, so is really not that much of an issue which one is better.

[QUOTE=Atomos]but you dont get free weekends unless you buy a plan (with the phone) not so with the xbox[/QUOTE]
Bill Gates... will always make money, you can be assured of that, people.

[QUOTE=Parkaboy]Sony has all of that plus 6 extra processors. [url]http://news.com.com/Sony+unveils+PlayStation+3/2100-1043_3-5709465.html[/url][/QUOTE]
It would be good to know what the capacity of those processors are. I don't think it mentions it in the article, are they the same than the "brain" 3.2ghz?

I mean the three processors in the xbox are 3.2ghz.

[QUOTE=JustinHolt]I had an Xbox after the PS2, and after I went back to the PS2 it wasn't even a contest, the PS2 just had way more that I liked for my sports games than the XBox did, including what I felt were 'better' graphics.

As I said before, from working in retail, having attended sales conferences on both this shit, and even an E3, PS2 was supreme because it offered more. The DVD player add on wasn't at a $30 extra charge (which was a big deal when it came out because most families who bought them didn't have DVD players). The games ranged all spectrums to include titles for young and old, boys and girls. They had the exclusive license rights for two of the biggest franchises (GTA & Final Fantasy), and the controller was more user friendly as it was one that people already had dealt with. The allowance of using older games was also a key. But it wasn't the main selling point.

The DVD players in both systems were equally flawed. The fan in the XBox actually burns out quicker also, although both systems were flawed in that regard.

It'll be interesting to see how both next generation systems do in the new marketplace. Price point and game licenses are two of the biggest keys. If one system gets exclusive game rights over the other for those titles like GTA, FF, or especially the sports ones like Madden, that will swing the pendulum hugely in their favor. Halo, as big as the game is, isn't going to make anyone who isn't a fan of FPS's buy a system, just like Mario isn't going to make anyone who isn't a fan of kiddie games buy their system. We'll see what happens...but I have a feeling that Sony will reign supreme again.[/QUOTE]

Game licenses are really the thing for me. Right now after having both systems, i really really like the xbox better. Having to wait for GTA SA to appear in xbox is a big thing because I know the PS2 sales would have fallen because of it.

So which games will appear exclusively on which system, even if you own them both, is a big thing, because one might be better than the other in certain areas.

[QUOTE=Xk3zofrenik]It would be good to know what the capacity of those processors are. I don't think it mentions it in the article, are they the same than the "brain" 3.2ghz?

I mean the three processors in the xbox are 3.2ghz.[/QUOTE]
As I understand it, the PS3 has nine of those and has two Invidia Graphics cards at 500 dollars a pop. They clearly have the hardware edge this time out by most accounts, but what they do with it remains to be seen. They were very vague on their Live approach and J Allard was arguing that they made their system more complex wheceras the strength of the PS2 was that it was simple and easy to design for.

I think Sony will stay on top however, Microsoft's online approach this time out seems misguided. How many Velocity Girls are going to buy a gold account and a 360 to design T Shirts for their boyfriend's game characters? You know?

[QUOTE=Parkaboy]As I understand it, the PS3 has nine of those and has two Invidia Graphics cards at 500 dollars a pop. They clearly have the hardware edge this time out by most accounts, but what they do with it remains to be seen. They were very vague on their Live approach and J Allard was arguing that they made their system more complex wheceras the strength of the PS2 was that it was simple and easy to design for.

I think Sony will stay on top however, Microsoft's online approach this time out seems misguided. How many Velocity Girls are going to buy a gold account and a 360 to design T Shirts for their boyfriend's game characters? You know?[/QUOTE]

I don't know, the PS3 does sound better than I expected it to be, way better. I guess it will all come down to the games, game licenses and Price. I am sure they are going to play the price drop to see who stays on top of the sales.

I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft sells cheaper just to fuck the PS3.

If the PS3 is harder to program for, then I guess the tables could be turned for the Xbox, since a lot of developers like to cut down the production time. That is one of the reasons the PS2 was king.

The Xbox was the better system, and still it couldn't beat the PS2. Let's see.

also I agree the marketing for the 360 is very shaky to say the least. I hope this is not the whole deal, it certainly doesn't help the hype.

[QUOTE=Xk3zofrenik]I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft sells cheaper just to fuck the PS3.[/QUOTE]

Sony did it to Microsoft when they were already killing them in sales and they dropped the price a $100, and then another $50 within a year, forcing XBox's hand.

This time around Microsoft gets to be the market setter so it should be interesting. Personally, since they are first, I think they'll go with the high price point. Why price against competition when you don't have any? The only benefit would be to price it low enough where everyone would buy one so that by the time PS3 comes out everyone's already chose the alternative. That isn't likely though at all. Way too many people already have too much invested into PS2's to just bypass their former library of games for something new.

Game license rights are going to end up being the very interesting turning point. If the big games sign one way or the other early on, the competition will be really one-sided. But if they sort of drag out, I can see both systems doing very well relative to the high intitial prices.

I'm also interested to see is what the price point for Xbox and PS2 are going to go to.

[QUOTE=JustinHolt]Sony did it to Microsoft when they were already killing them in sales and they dropped the price a $100, and then another $50 within a year, forcing XBox's hand.

This time around Microsoft gets to be the market setter so it should be interesting. Personally, since they are first, I think they'll go with the high price point. Why price against competition when you don't have any? The only benefit would be to price it low enough where everyone would buy one so that by the time PS3 comes out everyone's already chose the alternative. That isn't likely though at all. Way too many people already have too much invested into PS2's to just bypass their former library of games for something new.

Game license rights are going to end up being the very interesting turning point. If the big games sign one way or the other early on, the competition will be really one-sided. But if they sort of drag out, I can see both systems doing very well relative to the high intitial prices.

I'm also interested to see is what the price point for Xbox and PS2 are going to go to.[/QUOTE]

Actually something I forgot to mention, which is the reason I like Xbox and would like Xbox 360 even more is the computer games they bring. It is certainly something different and better than the other console games.

I really hope one of this system replaces computer gaming, simply for the fact of not having to buy a whole new computer every few years just to play a damn game.

If they ever make these things more upgradeable, more than a detachable hard drive, sort of make it like a little computer (which in some ways it already is).

---
Anyways, read somewhere in here
[url]http://www.ps3land.com/news/article106.php[/url]

that the xbox 360 will be able to play "some" xbox games. Also that Final Fantasy will make its way to the xbox 360 so right there two myths are dead, sort of. Supposedly they are changing things to make them compatible.

After reading things, my feel is microsoft wasn't all that ready. They are just jumping first before Sony, and making them unveil. Who knows what actually might be the xbox 360 in the future. I wouldn't be surprised right now if they even launched another "version" of the 360 in the future, because clearly this isn't the final final product they had in mind and like the controllers of the original xbox when that came out, this might not be the final deal. Sony on the other hand I am sure is quite final and won't spend that much once they launch, and have everything to lose if the prices drop. They even have the licenses to lose, etc. Being on top of the market is going to cost them a pretty penny other than the billions to make the hardware.

If the PS3 is hard to program, and if it has any flaw in design, I am pretty sure they might become the Nintendo of the past.

As for the investment in library of games, etc. I doubt it, that is a nice add on, but when these games come out, with way above better graphics than the PS2 and Xbox combined, i am sure that won't matter that much. Especially the PS2 games that aren't designed to be with a hard drive, and then switching to having a games that use the hardrive,

[QUOTE=Xk3zofrenik]Actually something I forgot to mention, which is the reason I like Xbox and would like Xbox 360 even more is the computer games they bring. It is certainly something different and better than the other console games.

I really hope one of this system replaces computer gaming, simply for the fact of not having to buy a whole new computer every few years just to play a damn game.

If they ever make these things more upgradeable, more than a detachable hard drive, sort of make it like a little computer (which in some ways it already is).

---
Anyways, read somewhere in here
[url]http://www.ps3land.com/news/article106.php[/url]

that the xbox 360 will be able to play "some" xbox games. Also that Final Fantasy will make its way to the xbox 360 so right there two myths are dead, sort of. Supposedly they are changing things to make them compatible.

After reading things, my feel is microsoft wasn't all that ready. They are just jumping first before Sony, and making them unveil. Who knows what actually might be the xbox 360 in the future. I wouldn't be surprised right now if they even launched another "version" of the 360 in the future, because clearly this isn't the final final product they had in mind and like the controllers of the original xbox when that came out, this might not be the final deal. Sony on the other hand I am sure is quite final and won't spend that much once they launch, and have everything to lose if the prices drop. They even have the licenses to lose, etc. Being on top of the market is going to cost them a pretty penny other than the billions to make the hardware.

If the PS3 is hard to program, and if it has any flaw in design, I am pretty sure they might become the Nintendo of the past.

As for the investment in library of games, etc. I doubt it, that is a nice add on, but when these games come out, with way above better graphics than the PS2 and Xbox combined, i am sure that won't matter that much. Especially the PS2 games that aren't designed to be with a hard drive, and then switching to having a games that use the hardrive,[/QUOTE]
an inteelectual man is one who uses more words than he needs, to tell you more than he knows

that was lame Atomos. Rebuff him in a cooler way.

[QUOTE=Xk3zofrenik]
As for the investment in library of games, etc. I doubt it, that is a nice add on, but when these games come out, with way above better graphics than the PS2 and Xbox combined, i am sure that won't matter that much. Especially the PS2 games that aren't designed to be with a hard drive, and then switching to having a games that use the hardrive,[/QUOTE]

If you look at sales studies this is actually one of the top two selling points for buying a system. Well it may not seem like such a big deal, when a family ventures out to buy a new system--and yes, those are still the people who make up the highest grossing and spending faction of the marketplace--they want something that they can use all of their old games with. They don't want to have to rationalize spending 'x' amount of money to the wife and then tell her that all the money they spent in the past was wasted.

Kids want to play their old games...but they want it to be on the new system. And another big selling point of backwards compatability, and anyone who has worked in retail has seen this, is that the older games are cheaper, therefore, people still buy them. It's easier to rationalize buying three or four games for the price of one new one...especially at those times when you a)can't decide on a game b)nothing you must have is out c)you have to buy one for each of the kids, friends, whatever to please everyone.

To think that people will just scoff at an established gaming empire because the other system has better graphics or whatever, and that XBox will flip the marketplace upside down overnight, that's ridiculous. XBox may be the most popular system amongst the teen/twenty-something generation...or at least seem that way. But sales figures are what they are, and until proven otherwise, Sony has dominated everyone since they came on the scene. They did it with the last system even though XBox was a 'superior' system. Unless Microsoft does something to completely floor everyone, they'll probably do it again.

End of story.

In the least, considering so many people are defending these damn corporations, we should at least get free systems when they come out...

[QUOTE=JustinHolt]If you look at sales studies this is actually one of the top two selling points for buying a system. Well it may not seem like such a big deal, when a family ventures out to buy a new system--and yes, those are still the people who make up the highest grossing and spending faction of the marketplace--they want something that they can use all of their old games with. They don't want to have to rationalize spending 'x' amount of money to the wife and then tell her that all the money they spent in the past was wasted.

Kids want to play their old games...but they want it to be on the new system. And another big selling point of backwards compatability, and anyone who has worked in retail has seen this, is that the older games are cheaper, therefore, people still buy them. It's easier to rationalize buying three or four games for the price of one new one...especially at those times when you a)can't decide on a game b)nothing you must have is out c)you have to buy one for each of the kids, friends, whatever to please everyone.

To think that people will just scoff at an established gaming empire because the other system has better graphics or whatever, and that XBox will flip the marketplace upside down overnight, that's ridiculous. XBox may be the most popular system amongst the teen/twenty-something generation...or at least seem that way. But sales figures are what they are, and until proven otherwise, Sony has dominated everyone since they came on the scene. They did it with the last system even though XBox was a 'superior' system. Unless Microsoft does something to completely floor everyone, they'll probably do it again.

End of story.

In the least, considering so many people are defending these damn corporations, we should at least get free systems when they come out...[/QUOTE]

Funny but all this talk about the system is sort of making me lose interest in them.

Funny how the biggest spenders are a family who follow your theory, yet the two out of three systems (if we count out the gamboy thing out of the gamecube) don't have such libraries and are selling quite good.

Again, that is a nice add-on, and I am sure there is quite a market for it, but it certainly is not a neccesity.

Also, older games are cheaper right now, and games get cheaper these days faster (hell the Fight Club game i have seen it at $9 at the local EB store and I don't think more than a year has passed.)

So the New console games in a while will get cheaper especially once the really "good" games start to arrive. I doubt a year in the console wars the "backwards compatibillity issue" will be a point. That is only true the first months when there isn't enough games.

So the theory and sales pitch has an expiration date, you could argue that is one of the main things that slowed down the xbox sales when it first came out, but that is just a blink in console time.

after all the years of waiting for the supposed next generation system, I am quite sure people will not only scoff, but forget what the older system were like pretty fast. Once they get to the point that they are just as good as computer games. Do you really think they are going to care for the older console games?

That would be like asking someone who can play The Sims (older version), and download all the things all little quirks that made that game, not only the biggest seller ever, and fucking overtly-expanded, want to play the shitty crippled console version. Just because is cheaper.

Cheapness and numbers have nothing to do with it.

Again, if microsoft brings forth its library of computer games, and computer games as a whole to the xbox360. I don't think it will matter that much the past history, and the numbers, and sony.

that is a big if, though.

i watched the e3 showcase thing on g4. xbox's press conference was a huge joke with a planted cheering section. (anyone else notice that??) they didnt show anything. in fact the whole thing leads me to believe they dont really HAVE anything. and they're hyping "phantomware" at the moment. the whole thing went something like we're microsoft. we made the xbox run halo really good. so heres some renders and trailers. drool, damn you. drool! buy 360!