Thoughts on Diary. (spoilers)

I thought the same thing. While reading the book I kept thinking "hmm there must be twist coming up". But there never was one. I wouldn't say I was disappointed, but it's certainly my least favorite Palahniuk book (and not just for the lack of twists).

Yeah, I know what you mean. It really lacked his usual, almost angry approach of the characters. I mean, sure Misty was pretty pissed at her husband, but really it just wasn't anything that captured me. I mean, she didn't have have her jaw blown off or anything . It was a good book though, but yeah, definately my least favorite of his.

For me it just didn't feel quite as special. I loved it, but I didn't feel for the character nearly as much as Tender Branson or Victor Mancini. The story felt too closed, her in her hotel all the time. The other characters like Angel felt so small in comparison to supporters in the past like Denny.

i agree with Adversary.....and yea...i too thought there would be some MAJOR twist. I don't think he did justice to the book, it was a great concept...but the ending was a let down. Especially how it jumps from the night of the opening to Misty talking to Tabbi. I also feel great elaboration would be better with respect to the fire. I think there are alot of unanswered questions.

Going off topic for a seond: Adversary, your face pic, that's...Ichi the Killer right? Crazy movie...

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Kidneythief [/i]
[B]Going off topic for a seond: Adversary, your face pic, that's...Ichi the Killer right? Crazy movie... [/B][/QUOTE]

Correct. It is Ichi himself. I love Miike!

God, that movie was fucking weird.... I mean, not like "makes you think weird" but just like, what the fuck, weird.

I'm sure you've seen Battle Royale. But what about Suicide Circle? or VERSUS?

I own all 4, and the order I'd rank them is

Battle Royale
Suicide Circle (another pretty f'd up movie, this one actually I think desensitized me completely from violence and gore)
VERSUS
Ichi The Killer

If you think about it, a lot of his books have that dark sort of underlying meaning you have to create your self....I mean, throughout Lullaby, he managed to always bring forth the "culling chant" what it was never officially said. Kind of like the paintings at the end of Diary...
I'm in agreeance with you.....It was a great book, but it still pisses me off that we have to let our own minds see whats not to be known..........I'm just not that creative!

I don't really understand why so many people say it's so sad. I mean, it was shocking and sorta sad when she saw Maura's message in the prison.... but the good characters are still alive.. some people you dont really care about died, and in a pretty cool fashion. something about the immortality is sad? what's so sad?

the last page was a brillinant ending.
throught the book, I was wondering who was "writing the diary" and I just thought the ending was exselento.

I liked the ending, but it wasn't as impressive as some of his others. I thought I read one time (in this site maybe) that Chuck himself said Diary's ending was the best twist he'd ever written. So I guess my excitement was built up too much and it ruined it for me.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by kayla_macneil [/i]
[B]If you think about it, a lot of his books have that dark sort of underlying meaning you have to create your self....I mean, throughout Lullaby, he managed to always bring forth the "culling chant" what it was never officially said. Kind of like the paintings at the end of Diary...
I'm in agreeance with you.....It was a great book, but it still pisses me off that we have to let our own minds see whats not to be known..........I'm just not that creative! [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, but in Lullaby knowing the culling song wasn't exactly necessary because throughtout the book you saw the exact effects of it, and you knew what it could do and you understood why it had to be destroyed. But in Diary, the whole book is just a long build up of the paintings, and you're never really told what the final mural is, but you can kind of guess since all she draws is things on the island. None the less, you don't get the same satisfaction of knowing what the paintings inflict in people like you know what the culling song does to people in Diary. So it's just a weaker version of Lullaby in my opinion.

And matt1015:

Sure, the letter at the end is supposed to strike some chord in us and make us say "Oh wow! It's like Misty actually mailed Chuck her Diary, and he just gave it to be published." But it didn't, I wasn't amused with the letter, so in my eyes it just wasn't effective. Don't get me wrong, the book WAS good, I enjoyed reading it. It just lacked certain elements that made Survivor, Fight Club, Invisible Monsters, Choke and Lullaby all great books.

I thought the letter at the end was a slightly cheesey twist. Good thing the publishers didn't go with the whole lock and key diary style book or else Diary would have been a cheese overload for me.

I just finished Diary. And by "just," I mean I read the last page at about 4:30 and now it's 4:40. (give or take). I liked the book a lot, and I went through the last half pretty quickly...like many of you I have read all of Chuck's work, so this book had some pretty high expectations to live up to.
SO...
I thought the book was great. However, I did not think that it was by any means Chuck's best work. My favorites of his are definitely Choke, Fight Club, and Lullaby. I thought that the letter at the end was kind of a nice touch, it allowed the Misty character to actually accomplish SOMETHING...without it, she would have been a complete failure as a person=>at least this way she has a chance of making an impact on the next incarnation.
I agree that the supporting characters were somewhat lacking in the book, it seemed as though there weren't ANY characters who were "good guys" except for Misty, and that took away from the book a bit.
All in all, it was an enjoyable read, and I'm glad I read it...but I don't think it lives up to some of Chuck's other works.

lol, yeah, I forgot about that. I guess she just wrote with her eyes closed or something...I mean if she could paint with her eyes closed, surely she could write...I don't know.

So heres what happened...

When I got the ARC back in June, I noticed some letters written to C.P or about....I didn't think anything of them, and though it was all apart of the package of recieving an ARC, and I just read the book and forgot about the transcripts......So when I came online and read these threads it kind of all makes a sense.......But I still agree that it did add a little more to it, but doesn't change the fact that the ending was a bit of a set up.......

Matt is right...the big "twist" is the letter at the very end implying that Chuck didn't write the book. Misty is real, her diary is real, etc.

As far as the story within, it's kinda weird, but I couldn't help but think to myself all along that there *wouldn't* be a big twist...from early on, it just seemed like there were too many curves in the story for it to hide much of a surprise. Does that make any sense? What I mean is, for the big twist to really hit you hard, you have to keep things more or less straight along the way before you get there.

I know what you mean, it really did curve in and out a lot, but I still expected a big twist, and the letter didn't really satisfy that. It was a cute touch, but it wasn't like "OMFG that's crazy" like when in Invisible Monsters, you find out that she was the one that blew off her jaw...I mean, that fucking blew my mind.

Honestly I like the fact that there wasn't a "huge twist". I mean, I'm glad that Chuck masterfully used another device to create a brilliant story. In the past, all the twists totally grabbed me, but in retrospect Diary is so brilliant because he compounds all of these seemingly meaningless details and puts them all to good use in the end. Like her vision out in the woods and then saying she saw the footprints by the trail...it had me thinking of some supernatural shit going on, until Tabbi says that Granmy and her were watching while she vomited and shat on herself. Just stuff like that made it quite refreshing and another brilliant work under his belt.

Yeah but when you start a book expecting certain things, then it's kind of a let down when you don't get them. Like I said though, the book was good, I enjoyed reading it.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Kidneythief [/i]
[B]Yeah but when you start a book expecting certain things, then it's kind of a let down when you don't get them. Like I said though, the book was good, I enjoyed reading it. [/B][/QUOTE]

Then you set yourself up for failure. I went into it expecting to enjoy it, and not much else, so I was definitely pleased.

a) I loved the book. I began it like begin all Chuck's books -without expecting twists or anything particular- and I enjoyed it very much.

as far as the diary is concerned, she only had her eyes closed when she was painting. She was not only allowed by her "guards," but also encouraged to write in the diary, as "the diary you're keeping right now, Tabbi's great-great grandchildren will find it extremely useful in dealing with you the next time around" (p.225)

c) I agree with you, Adversary in the details that come together in the end. I must admit that I hadn't made the connection between the "statue" footprints and Grace and Tabbi being there. I think... wait, i have to have a look in the book again.

I'm not sure how I feel yet. I'm still absorbing it. I didn't hate it... but I didn't love it like I did Survivor. I do wish there was a little more of Angel though

"For the record, walking out of the meadow, there were two deep holes next to the path. The holes were a couple of feet apart, [I]too big to be footprints, too far apart to be a person[/I]. A trail of holes went back into the forest, [I]too big, too far apart to be anybody walking[/I]" (p.112, emphasis mine)
Looks like we have some unexplained supernatural in our hands *big, satisfied Gothic scholar grin*

My favourite from the little details is Tabbi with her eyes taped shut, refusing to look at the fireworks and trying to get the feel of the reception room on July 4th. It makes you think "WTF?!" then you forget about it and in the end you realise why it had to be there.

I thought the "big twist" was Misty finding out that she was once Maura Kincaid and Constance B. That's the twist I thought that Chuck was saying was going to blow people away.

just finished Diary (which is why i'm here now).
i really liked this book, and i'm not placing it at the bottom of my favorite's as a lot of people are. now that i'm done with it i'm going to go back and reread all his others to see what i missed.
i can't get enough of him to wait until his next publication.
i liked the ending of the book with the letter, i thought it was very original, and very strange to suddenly see his name and the name of his editor & publisher.
i was also expecting a twist at the end but i don't read his books for the twists. the whole journey from the beginning to end to get to the twist is more enjoyable for me. the twist is just a mint at the end of a five course meal.
i think Chuck definitely had his thoughts planned out better for this book, it's written with a little more linearity. this causes what other people have stated and i agree on, that in a few places it seemed perhaps forced or even almost boring now and then. i think the other reason for this that nobody is thinking of is that this book takes place in one location, and island. no road trips or hiding in the back of houses being moved across the country, no waking up in an airplane in LAX, in Dallas, in Chicago, all over the place. in my mind this gives it more of a horror-esque feel, as most Gothic and horror books tend to happen in one eery, quiet, quaint town and not all over the country.
i think this was a very good book and i was not disappointed in any way, in fact i was very happy that Chuck was able to keep his beautiful style intact while writing a book very different from his other's.
now i just have to wait some more for his next...
and i live in a place he will probably never come close to for his signings, which just sucks.

that was a great analysis.. i very much agree with nearly everything. so i shall say to you; "indeed.... indeed."

and thats not just cause i know ya;)

angelanicole!
same pictures and everything!
i guess it makes sense that you're here, since i think you were the one who posted this link in the other forum.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by lupus [/i]
[B]"For the record, walking out of the meadow, there were two deep holes next to the path. The holes were a couple of feet apart, [I]too big to be footprints, too far apart to be a person[/I]. A trail of holes went back into the forest, [I]too big, too far apart to be anybody walking[/I]" (p.112, emphasis mine)
Looks like we have some unexplained supernatural in our hands *big, satisfied Gothic scholar grin*

My favourite from the little details is Tabbi with her eyes taped shut, refusing to look at the fireworks and trying to get the feel of the reception room on July 4th. It makes you think "WTF?!" then you forget about it and in the end you realise why it had to be there. [/B][/QUOTE]

Wow, I actually forgot about that completely when I read the part of her going around the dining room. That's crazy, it certainly adds a few more points to it in my book. I reall think that I'm going to have to read it again because I feel like I may have missed some specifics that really tied the entire book together. Unfortunately I won't be able to read it because I have a pretty long list of books queued already that I'm wanting to read, and Catch-22 is taking me forever to get through.

[I]Diary[/I] deserves multiple readings, that's for sure.

Izen, thanks for the one-location comment. You are right, this one is more claustrophobic than the others. Gets one thinking.

Off topic: Lupus: Who is Brian in your signature? Because I really like the second quote.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by lupus [/i]
[B]Brian... Funny that you should ask, I was about to dedicate some appreciation posts to him on this thread. Brian is an American friend of mine, and one of the most positive people i know. He never fails to cheer me up, puts up with my nagging, supports me when I am in lovish, and constantly refuses to marry me.
Brian quotes will appear often in the future.
[/B][/QUOTE]
He's going to love his newly-acquired fame so much...

the question of how she wrote the diary is the only one that bothered me while reading, and only of course for the last half dozen chapters or however many. i wonder if they gave her a break in the evening's, let her rest her hands, etc, and she wrote it then. i can imagine that, seeing how the Diary was so crucial to the Waytansea period revival plan, they would've allowed her to do this. i just wish that chuck had mentioned it, it would've cleared up the only possible discrepancy i found in the book.

Well, yes, that's true. "The only time her hands don't shake is when she draws or paints" (136) [yes, I eat and sleep with CP's books around me, feel free to laugh]. We can assume she suffers quite a lot while she writes in the diary. "This is the worst part of her day, writing this" (37). Apart from becoming something like an emotional need for her to write in the diary, we have to keep in mind that it is also necessary for the book to exist.

Another detail of [I]Diary[/I] that makes it rather special is the change in the narrative voice (in comparison to the previous novels). Misty is the narrator, however she refers to herself in the third person only. There was a bit of that in [I]Choke[/I], when Victor was talking about his younger self (“This wimpy little squirrel” (3), “this little spaz” (2), “some dweeby little boy” (2) ). I see it as an attempt of disassociation. And I like the way that when she talks about Peter in the 3rd person, she goes on to repeat what she said in the 2nd, almost as an afterthought, yet insistently: "Because Peter never loved her, Angel Delaporte says. You never loved her" (193). But Misty never, ever (unless in dialogue) becomes an "I".

yeah i thought that was a wonderful part of the book, the whole "disassociation" as you wonderfully worded it. i'll tell you, the lack of her ever referring directly too herself had me thinking throughout the entire book that i was actually reading Grace's Diary and at the end of the book she would give it to Misty for some reason. this book had me thinking quite a few different things that never happened, but this idea stuck with me the whole time.
---but anway, yeah, the book wouldn't have been possible, of course, but i seriously think he should've mentioned at least once when she was writing it. oh well.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Parasiticsucker [/i]
[B]I was thinking more that the diary that Grace had was actually the one written by the last person she was when on the island a hundred years before, but then i read that letter at the end and it says she wrote most of it that summer. It makes more sense to me that the diary MISTY actually read was from her previous life. Because it was what helped the people around her trap her. they knew what they had to do AGAIN in order to make her save them. And then i am guessing afterwards she changed the details or something and then sent it to chuck. WHOOO Knows...just a thought.

I wasn't expecting some huge twist, but i must say when i first read how everyone was disappointed with that i immediately thought about the solitude she experienced and it made sense that things happened the way they did. Still thinking a lot about this one, so my opinions are really just thoughts and i am still forming them.. [/B][/QUOTE]

Ummm..yeah. They reveal pretty early on that in fact, the diary Grace is reading is from Misty's past lives. They say that she keeps a diary everytime she's a live. Misty found out how to save herself in the next life by "sending" Chuck her diary for the world to see, including the next incarnation she takes on this earth.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by matt1015 [/i]
[B]Did none of you read the last page of the book? The letter basically said that chuck didnt write the book. All he did was put his name on it so people would read it, That's why it wasn't "like" Chuck's other books. [/B][/QUOTE]

No I think your wrong, He re-wrote it from a diary kept by the lead character (can´t believe I don´t remember her name now)
That´s why there were lots of these "Your wife" "Your Daughter"
"You whatever..." Well, basically I base this asumption on that "Your Wife" line.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Sedated [/i]
[B]No I think your wrong, He re-wrote it from a diary kept by the lead character (can´t believe I don´t remember her name now)
That´s why there were lots of these "Your wife" "Your Daughter"
"You whatever..." Well, basically I base this asumption on that "Your Wife" line. [/B][/QUOTE]

No, it's her Diary, Chuck just got it published. IT'S NOT ACTUALLY REAL!

I don't think any of us actually believes Chuck got a manuscript and published it. Right?

There were more than one diaries, as The Artist (Maura/Constance/Misty) keeps one in every reincarnation. She didn't have to change the details in the red-bound diary, because she already kept a diary as Misty. The coma diary. As far as the "Your wife, your daughter" stuff is concerned, well, you already know what I believe.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Adversary [/i]
[B]No, it's her Diary, Chuck just got it published. IT'S NOT ACTUALLY REAL! [/B][/QUOTE]

AND I'M WILLING TO FIGHT ANYONE THAT DISAGREES!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Misty Wilmot, ha ha, MISTY WILL MOT! OMFG

..... More Kin Aid? wtf does that mean?
Will Mot? hehe, uh, yeah... uh.... i don't get it.
it's weird to me to think that Chuck may have gotten many of the names for major characters in this book by shoving together and relettering brief descriptions of their purpose.
-----
As far the whole diary thing is concerned, i think it's pretty frikin simple.
Misty sent her own diary, otherwise the entire book would've been Kincaid's (the one that Grace was reading throughout the book). Anybody think i'm wrong on this? Hellooooooo!?
Why does it always say 'your wife', 'your daughter'? Because Misty wrote it to her husband, who was in a coma, like everything in the book says. When Chuck got the manuscript (yeah, i know he didnt' REALLY get one), he didn't see any need to go and change it or rewrite it. Misty chose to write it that way and he kept it that way, probably only changing the names for anonymity purposes and correcting grammatical errors.
It's very simple in my mind; i didn't even wonder about this at the end of the book. Why would she get Kincaid's diary and publish it, when it was pretty obvious that Kincaid (whose skeleton shows she died as the islander's planned) didn't do quite as good of a job getting away from the Waytansea people.
These are my opinions, but i just finished the book, and i even went back and skimmed over the last two chapters and the letter at the end.

See, Izen is right, except for you're talking like it's actually real (changing the names for anonymity and the grammar stuff). See, Chuck wrote the book as though he didn't write the book. Is that so hard to grasp my people?

Agreed, Izen. And, Adversary, I think Izen still remains in the fictional realm. Saying that she changed names for anonymity is like saying she sent the manuscript to Chuck. All these are going on in the world of the book, not the real world.

yes, i am remaining in the fictionary realm, as Lupus said. for the sake of the story, i say Chuck changed the names. i know it didn't really happen. if it HAD happened, then it's obvious he would've rewritten it because it's in his style, not the style of an alcoholic pantier from Waytansea, therefor getting rid of the "your wife," "your daughter" that somebody somewhere had such a problem with.
Why am i stating these things? i can only hope that anybody who expressed a belief in the possibility that this all really happened was joking. However, it will stand forever behind my belief that this is more proof of what a damn good book it was.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Parasiticsucker [/i]
[B]It makes more sense to me that the diary MISTY actually read was from her previous life. Because it was what helped the people around her trap her. they knew what they had to do AGAIN in order to make her save them. And then i am guessing afterwards she changed the details or something and then sent it to chuck. WHOOO Knows...just a thought. [/B][/QUOTE]

That's how I see it too. And then maybe she didn't write each entry on the day it happened either. She could've written a lot of it once she realized that she needed to get the story published for her future self. (Didn't her mother in law always want her to keep a diary, but she never would write in it? I can't remember if that's right or not)

Adversary: You actually think somebody could be That stupid?
OF COURSE IT`S NOT REAL.

Watansea Island--"Wait and See" Island

the twist wasn't the letter. it was that misty was maura kincaid and constance burton. the twist was that this had all happened to her before, and would happen again.