All the damn spoilers you want Diary discussion

yeah, the ending. I thought it was corny. I thought about it for a few days.

i loved the ending. especially the last conversation between misty and tabbi. it was well written, but it made me feel horrible. chucks saddest book indeed.

i just finished it, about 1/2 hr ago, so i'm still thinking about the storyline. since there isn't actual discussion here yet, except the reminder that broskrat thought the ending tasted like chunky monkey (not the delicious ice cream, either), i'll just say that it was good enough to read in a day, but didn't deliver a survivor-like KO.

the opening chapter was great, however, and the idea that chuck didn't write the story is interesting.

(before xchuck posts YES HE DID MOE, CHUCK WROTE THE BOOK!! let me state, just for the record, -har har- that i know chuck really did write the book)

The way the supernatural stuff worked out with this book, I though it had kinda a steven king feel to it. Specifically the chapter where she could draw everything perfectly. Fun stuff to read, just reminded me of steven king.

Oh, anyone else pick up on how chucks last two books end with the same feeling of not having any control over the world around you? They both seem equally sad

Someone help me with the end. I think I get it but...What was the point of having all the people there and then setting the hotel on fire? How did this make the island rich again? Maybe these are stupid questions.

I thought the end was about taking control.

Bachinator - the hotel went up in flames, all the advertising companies paid to keep their ads out of the pictures of the catastrophe. Then they had money to get rid of the tourists for a while.

I wouldn't say destiny makes you its bitch, I'd say the exact opposite. No matter how many times you fucked up in the past, there's still a way out of it. Don't you guys understand the letter at the end? Misty hid her diary in plain site, where everyone could see it -- including herself -- in a novel. She sent it to Chuck and had it published, so that in future lives she would read the book and be free from her "destiny." I don't think it was sad really, like a lot of you have said.

It was more of an escape. An escape from destiny, fate, control. In her next life, she'd be free.

Well that certainly makes more sense. Thanks for clearing that up. I was wondering what the letter at the end was about. Now I feel stupid.

Why did they need her to paint anything.... no one saw the damn paintings..... why not just say, "Hey, we're having an art show, and when you know we're full of shit, you're dead!" Seems a lot easier.... and while I'm at it, wouldn't the first picture she did be that chair? So the last picture she painted in the hotel would be uninspired? Or did they get the chiar picture? Or am I just dumb?

everyone did see the paintings. they needed misty to do it because she painted so well, her images caused stendhal syndrome...the rapturous effect that basically sends the viewer into shock.

so, they unveil the mural, which is big and long enough to get the attention of the 100s in attendance, everyone goes into their dumbfounded shock, not paying attention to tabbi, who's igniting grandmy and grandby's fuel-soaked clothing. shit's old and wooden, right? a veritable tinderbox. next thing you know, the place is blazin'. remember when tabbi was telling misty how it all went down, she says they taped her eyes shut? that's so she wouldn't be stendhal'd too.

in terms of the chair as the first picture...don't know what to say.

finally, just for further clarification, the island became rich again from the corporate buy-outs as well as insurance monies from the older residents who sacraficed their lives just like the elder wilmots.

p.s. lazlosdead, i wouldn't call you dumb...not to your face, anyway

The image that really sticks in my head is of the fireman looking into the burning building and then smiling and walking into his own death. I loved the book, but I will agree that it didn't strike me as profoundly as some of his past work. Still, brilliant down to the last word.

I just finished the book and I really liked it. I went to art school so it was cool reading about the artists, the paints, stendhal sydrome, and all the things I learned about in school. i agree that the image of the fireman being over powered by the painting and walking to his own death is an amazing scene. Great book!

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by moe.ron [/i]
[B]i know chuck really did write the book) [/B][/QUOTE] no he didnt no no no no he did not nora wrote the book it says so write their!!!

I still dont get why Grace poisoned her. If it was going to happen anyway, why did she have to make her sick first?

It was Something Witchey!!!

Anyone else find it totally predictable? It's not a particularly bad thing about the story but you can basically figure out whats happened and whats going to happen from two of the 'flashback' type scenes very early on, the one where peter tells her that all artists in history have gone through pain and the one where the guy rips out the ear ring so that he's not the one. However, it wasn't too obvious so I still wanted to keep reading to see what happens, or as the book says I wanted to Waytansea.
I think the ending could have been better, it's almost as if he had a really great idea for a book but then couldn't think of a good way of ending it. It doesn't make that much sense either, because Angel talks about the paintings of one of the earlier incarnations so he must have seen them, therefore they can't have been burned.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mikandrewz [/i]
[B]Anyone else find it totally predictable? It's not a particularly bad thing about the story but you can basically figure out whats happened and whats going to happen from two of the 'flashback' type scenes very early on, the one where peter tells her that all artists in history have gone through pain and the one where the guy rips out the ear ring so that he's not the one. However, it wasn't too obvious so I still wanted to keep reading to see what happens, or as the book says I wanted to Waytansea.
I think the ending could have been better, it's almost as if he had a really great idea for a book but then couldn't think of a good way of ending it. It doesn't make that much sense either, because Angel talks about the paintings of one of the earlier incarnations so he must have seen them, therefore they can't have been burned. [/B][/QUOTE]

No, because the paintings by themselves aren't a big deal. They're really pretty, but nothing that special, but when you start to put them together they get more and more overpowering, and if all 100 are placed together the Stendahl syndrome is completely controlling of the people. I mean, he started seeing Misty's paintings and offered her money, but those were just a few in the series.

Maybe I phrased that wrong, Angel saw one of the PREVIOUS painters work, from one hundred or two hundred years ago, paintings that according to the book, should have been burnt in the fire along with the people.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mikandrewz [/i]
[B]Maybe I phrased that wrong, Angel saw one of the PREVIOUS painters work, from one hundred or two hundred years ago, paintings that according to the book, should have been burnt in the fire along with the people. [/B][/QUOTE]

Misty's chair didn't burn in the fire. Her paintings she made before she met Peter didn't burn in the fire. Misty had been an artist her whole life. As far as we know, Maura Kincaid could've painted more than 100 paintings. She could've started painting before she contracted poisoning and began painting her "masterpiece".

Remember that as a child, Misty painted perfectly accurrate landscapes of Waytansea Island without knowing the place even existed.

i love that this book was about art. everything he discussed, from theory to history, as well as the element of psychoanalysis, was endlessly pleasing to me. these topics made the book particularly interesting to me, in that they are more deeply rooted within my own interests. i was fascinated with nearly every page, and found that it gave me more of an experience than the other books. the other ones were all acts of genius in their own respect, but this one was just closer to my own psyche. the whole novel, to me, was probably the most satisfying thing i have ever read.
of course, this might change in the near future, as im still on that post-novel high since i just finished it late last night...but for now, i am confidently saying that it was all that i will ever ask for in a book. i am in complete and geniune love with its sublime richness.

anyway. although i am likely quite a dolt for not picking up on this, who is nora adams? i immediately thought she was a future misty, but then i figured out that that might not make all that much sense.. so then i thought she was the writer of the novel, but was confused as to how she fit into those characters story.. if she was the writer, was she writing it as an observer within the environment of the book or was it a story she heard/made up? any perspectives on who she is exactly [or whether or not i should even think she is significant] would be lovely. thanks.

ANicole: [url]http://www.chuckpalahniuk.net/community/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4326[/url]

thanks n stuff.

10-4, good buddy.

Has Chuck EVER told a story in linear fashion? I don't think so......
If anything, I thought this book lacked all the "one liners" that his others have..... There were very few big lines like that in this book...(e.g. "You are not your job." "Your life is a mistake you spend your life trying to correct." etc.) The only thing that grabbed me as "Chuck's" in this book was the "For the record the weather today is______...." over and over.... It didn't really "feel" like on of his books.... Or maybe I just use too many "quotation marks"......

Her eyes are taped shut. Also, there's a scene earlier on in the book where Tabitha practices moving around the dining room either blindfolded or with her eyes closed - Misty writes this off, when she's actually being trained to set fire to the tourists when the time arrives.

Matches.

Do you think there is anyway to figure out what the big painting looked like. Or is the assumption just that it was a bunch of pretty pictures of the island?

I liked the book but was a little disapointed by the end. In an interview Chuck said the ending was like the twist in fight club squared. So I was expecting to be floored. But there wasn't really any twist. I thought all the rich people would die and they did. I guess the letter in the end is kind of a surprise but nothing mind blowing.

Still, great book, I couldn't put it down. I just wish Chuck didn't get me all hyped for a big ending.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by PERLsoprock [/i]
[B]Do you think there is anyway to figure out what the big painting looked like. Or is the assumption just that it was a bunch of pretty pictures of the island?[/B][/QUOTE] I think, based upon Chucks description, you really couldn't come up with a mental image of the mural - but I get the idea that, yes, it was an enormous landscape of Waytansea Island.

It's the same with Lullaby. Chuck, thank god, never wrote out how tha culling song went. Had he included anywhere the actual words

[i]Taya taya go ninu
Taya taya go ru nindo
Mata ko ! Mata ko
Rindu ninu go ninu
Mata ko ! Mata ko
Taya taya go ru nindo
Taya taya go ninu[/i]

the dramatic effect would have been greatly diminshed.

Oh, crap... Don't read that last post, for God's sake, don't...

*[b]thud[/b]*

I'll never understand how some just can't seem to make cognitive leaps...

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Etched Values [/i]
[B]I live in iowa, give me a hand? [/B][/QUOTE]

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???? Tabbi even says that "granmy" and "granby" showed her how to SET THEM ON FIRE! THEIR CLOTHES. Once they were on fire, the mural had already been unveiled and everyone was taken over by the Stendahl Syndrome that despite the fire, they stood and burned because the fire was spreading, you know, like fire does.

uh, anyway, i have a question or two

I didnt really get the last line? What did she mean we couldn't die if we wanted to? She couldnt cuz of her story? Reincarnation? whats the deal?

Also, is there some way to be sure Nora Adams is her name changed? Why did she change it? Eh, i guess its logical though.

The last line, she couldn't die if she wanted to.....
is because eventually another 'World's Greatest Artist' is born.... and she continues to live again. The same story over and over.

I see there are a few questions here about what the mural depicts when it is completed. Misty has spent her entire artistic life painting scenes from Waytansea Island. It seemed to make perfect sense to me that the final mural she paints, the mural she wasn't permitted to see herself whilst painting it, had to be the final scene.

The unveiling.

The mural is a picture of the mural being unveiled.

...Well, it made sense in my mind anyway.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by suburbanomad [/i]
[B]Secondly, Misty dies at the end, right? Right there, in the tomb with the two skeletons, right? It wouldn't make sense that she doesn't, since the other two woman were buried there, right? Her daughter shuts her in and she dies. God, that sure darkened this story.[/B][/QUOTE] Fuck. Now I have to reread it again...

Did I somehow not grok that? There _is_ a message that says, in effect, 'when they are done with you, they will kill you', or somesuch.

Hmmm...

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by suburbanomad [/i]
[B]Ok, a few things, all of which are just ramblings and whatnot.

Secondly, Misty dies at the end, right? Right there, in the tomb with the two skeletons, right? It wouldn't make sense that she doesn't, since the other two woman were buried there, right? Her daughter shuts her in and she dies. God, that sure darkened this story.[/B][/QUOTE]

Holy shit, I didn't even think that. Wow, I felt the breeze on that one :rolleyes: That opens up a LOT of questions! That's a good point though, I guess Nora could be Tabbi, but I don't understand why she would publish the Diary, when she thinks what she's doing is right. w/e nobody knows

I thought that Misty dies too, though the letter doesn't make any sense coming from Tabbi. Especially with all that "I'm bored of dying, I just want to get it over with quick." talk.

Just finished it. Not as good as Chuck's earlier books. The twist at the end wasn't very suprising. And the Nora Adams thingy kinda yanked you away from the story or something. Like breaking the fourth wall in a comic.

The mausoleum at the end was creepy. They didn't even give a proper burial for the women who saved their island. And the way Tabbi led Misty in there...

It doesn't say anywhere that Tabbi locked her mother in the mausoleum that day. What I believed happened was that Misty took Tabbi out of the island (nobody stopped her because they did not need her any more and nobody would believe her story anyway), went to the trailer park where she grew up in Tecumseh Lake -that's where the letter is sent from- changed her name legally to Tyler Durden -oops, sorry, Nora Adams, I mean- and mailed the manuscript to Chuck.

In support of this:
"Misty says, 'I've decided to legally change our names.' Misty says, 'Tabbi, I [I]need[/I] to tell people what really happened.' Misty squeezes Tabbi's skinny knee, her white stockings sliding over her kneecap, and Misty says, "We can go live with your grandma in Tecumseh Lake." (p.236)

So [b]there[/b].

Yeah.

i didn't think that Misty died at the end. i don't think Tabbi would've had any desire to prevent it from happening again in four generations. she was corrupted by her grandmother from birth and even though i'm sure she turned around, i doubt it was enough to make her send the book in to Chuck. besides, the last chapter talks plenty of Misty's desire to get it out to everybody. it's pretty obvious, unless i completely missed something.
i wonder if Chuck subtly alluded to the Nora Adams name or to this general subject earlier in the book. now I'LL have to read it again too.

The geek says: No mention of Nora Adams in the rest of the book. No allusion to publishing until the final page.

okay, gee... er, lupus
as far the Tabbi thing is concerned, i stand behind my opinion that it was Misty who wrote the letter and sent the manuscript to Chuck. i don't think the islander's of Waytansea really give a shit if she died in the masoleum or not; it's a break from the tradition, but they still got their bonfire.
----------------
here's a new question, and one i hope that i didn't miss in my flurry and ready the last sixty pages in one sit-down because i couldn't put the fucking book down!
Misty gets arrested in the, what, second or third to last chapter? Why is she released? All those people burning in the hotel doesn't prove that she didn't kill Peter, Angel, and burn down all those houses. Is the reason for her suddenly being free again, with Tabbi in her custody, mentioned? Maybe it's a few years later. Anybody know? Geek? Anybody?

Mm, that's interesting. Maybe with detective Stilton dead in the fire there was nobody committed enough to prosecute her (and also everyone who was present at Misty's arrest and heard the rather incriminating warning that the hotel is going to burn, died in the fire too). With the chaos that followed the tragedy, probably the matter of a couple of death was forgotten. The people of the island could have given Misty an alibi, figuring that if the case made it into court she would start babbling about conspiracies etc. The fires are blamed on OAFF, case closed.
Unfortunately, all these are just assumptions. Nothing is mentioned as far as the geek knows.

Upon further study, I don't read it as Misty dying.

The name Nora Adams is reeeeal familiar to me, yet I don't know why. Was she, irl, a contest winner? Or have I just absorbed it into my subconcious?

actually Tuffy the name was familiar to me too. a minor character name is another book perhaps? perrrrr-haps?
anybody (geek?) want to research this or comment on it?

Oh, simple, it is the hidden name of the anonymous caseworker in [I]Survivor[/I]... Joking, of course. I don't think I have ever encountered that name in Chuck's novels. But I'll keep an eye in my future readings.

BANG.

Am I good or what?

I bow to your excellence.

*bows to Tuffy's excellence*

Ok, another little thought to ponder over. Consider the similarities between Misty and Bertha/Antoinette in [I]Jane Eyre[/I] and/or [I]Wide Sargasso Sea[/I] (mostly the second, I think). The theme of the madwoman in the attic. Only, of course, the woman is not really mad, they [B]drive[/B] her crazy. [I]And[/I] there are nice big fires in all endings. Am I clutching at straws here? On second thought I am. But I will leave the post as is.