What was Chuck trying to say in Choke?

This is what I think:

When Victor was little his mom told him that he had the ability to change the world. She said that he could rewrite the world as he wanted to. When he grew up he realized that he couldn't. He decided that if he couldn't change the world he wouldn't try to do any good at all. Then he got into the world of sexual addiction and foucused entirely on seeking pleasue for himself. This is one of the reasons he enjoyed choking sometimes. When he choked he made a permanent difference in someones life. When he thought he was Jesus it was kind of the excuse he was looking for to start doing good. Something to make him believe that he was capable of doing good. But he wasn't Jesus. At the end he decides that he does want to be a good person even if he can't do much.

Chew before you swallow

Dont leave anal beads in your ass

I just finished the book last night, so my interpretations are not fully matured.

It seems like Victor always needed a reason to do something. He couldn't just do something out of free will. His past experiences and jacked-up childhood left him second guessing lots of things. The sex addiction seemed like the only true and structured thing in his life. With that being said, I think Chuck is trying to tell us that leaving too many things in our lives open-ended can cause serious confusion and eventual personal destruction. Does that make sense? heh. probably not.

I found myself really intrigued by Denny. What exactly is his role(s)? I know he provides comic relief and all, but he seemed like much more to me. The whole "focused on rocks thing to make something that unknown" thing was doing my head in.

Tyler?

This is gonna sound like I'm joking, but I'm not, really. I think what Chuck was trying to "say" in Choke was that it was high time he got it out of his system, and write the love letter to Dennis Johnson's book "Jesus' Son" that's been living in his heart ever since he read the thing however many years ago.

I'm really serious about this. If you read JS, and then read Choke, compare Fuckhead to Victor; even the "surface story" of the book (Victor thinking he is ~surprise!~ "Jesus' Son") reflects Chuck's love of Dennis Johnson's amazing little book. So small it could fit in your pocket, and yet so very, very heavy all the same.

I'm not sure the main point of it is much deeper than that. In terms of constant Chuck themes, he's talked about it in quite a few interviews, that the gyst of it is getting past destruction (Tyler, Tender, Ms. Alexander), and getting to a point where you want to build and stand for something, instead of just breaking down everything around you.

I've a bunch of scenester-ish friends who love nothing more to talk about who's "sold out," and what's "real" and what's not. Every now and again, I'll hit 'em with "What do you love?"

They usually reply, "Huh?"

Then I say, "What do you love? What do you stand for? What do you believe?"

They usually shrug me off with another "Whatever," and that makes me sad.

But mostly, Grae, I think the main part of the book is just a love letter to Dennis Johnson's work. I know that sound real shallow for the "deep" and "meaningful" Chuck, but so what? It's kind of like... there was an interview... I'm sure it's linked to the site still, somewhere, where Chuck was talking about how great it was when man was working so hard to get to the moon.

There's wasn't gold there, there wasn't a cure for cancer, there weren't little green men. It was the doing that mattered. What they had to work for and what they learned by the process.

The building, not the built. The process and not the product.

And Dennis Johnson is one fucking amazing writer.

That's what I think Choke is about.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by willtupper [/i]
[B]It's kind of like... there was an interview... I'm sure it's linked to the site still, somewhere, where Chuck was talking about how great it was when man was working so hard to get to the moon.

There's wasn't gold there, there wasn't a cure for cancer, there weren't little green men. It was the doing that mattered. What they had to work for and what they learned by the process.

The building, not the built. The process and not the product.[/B][/QUOTE] And [b]that[/b] is a summary of Zen. "It is the journey, and not the goal, that is important." Denny with his rocks is the most Zen of Chuck's characters. Go figure.

[QUOTE=Lazlosdead]Dont leave anal beads in your ass[/QUOTE]
I don't think that Choke taught you that one, Laz. You probably learned that from personal experience.

I like and agree with a lot of what people already said, so I have nothing to add but my beautiful smile.

[QUOTE=Grae]I think the purpose of the book is to show that even if you are holy, you still have flaws

Victor, supposed son of Jesus Christ himself, the sex addict, the fraud, I know in the end it turns out that Paige was just crazy and he wasn't the son of Jesus, but I think that in that book, Chuck was trying to say that no matter how holy a person is, they still have flaws.

What do you think?[/QUOTE]

I took away from it that we all suffer from our compulsions/addictions, and the best we can hope for is to trade one for another. The 'you have to trade your youth for something' line kind of sums that part up.

Also, I think it's essentially a book about how we are all deluded, it's a matter of degree. We construct "selves" to show the world, but they're never quite accurate, and ultimately our limitations prove us liars.

It's been a while since i read Choke so i might not get it all. I think what he was saying was, rather than face reality for what it is and do something with it, be it build or destroy, we hide our lives with symbolism and meaningless words to comfort and shelter ourselves from unwillingness to go out and actually do something. People dig to deep into the religious aspects of the book. But, on that subject, Victor looks at the prospect of being cloned from Jesus and believes he suddenly has this name and legacy to live up to. He resents this as we all do when people build up aspects of our lives and strives to do the opposite, "What would Jesus not do." His friend Denny is more of a Jesus like character by leaps and bounds. Denny steps up and does what he believes in. He starts building something. He doesn't know what he's building and doesn't know how long it will take to build it, much like how Christians would view Jesus historically. I'm sure he didn't know at first what he building or how long it would take. Victor is the common man. He hides behind the facades of everyday and in the end he doesn't even know who he really is. You are not your name. Then he gets slapped with a slew of new labels at his mom's residence (the hospital or whatever) people refer to him as lost relatives or business partners they hate or resent and his mom frequently calls him by other people's names. He grudgingly goes along with it like we all do. We let people get away with labeling us, because after all, we live in a world where everything has at least fifty different labels. An example would be human fecal matter.1.Shit 2.Poo 3.A Slam 4.A Grumpy, and the list goes on. Victor's mom is everyone who's every had enough and said "No more! i am not Ida Mancinci God Dammit! I am not a fuckin label used by an abusive society that can't handle the shrewdness of a straightforward reality! I am me!" I'm not sure i made much sense as when i start on a subject like this i have a tendency to ramble, sluur, etc. It's like the Matrix. Everyone wants to be like Neo, but no one wants to deal with all the other shit tied to him. Give me heaven but no work to get their. Hide turmoil with symbols and the most radical and violent of Atheist and Theist will work together peacefully.

I agree with the first part of what you said but you're right, you do ramble. I lost you after a while.

It wouldn't be a problem if i could find a way to organize my thoughts.