THE TRUTH ABOUT SURVIVOR [spoilers]

Now it's been a while since I finished Survivor. I never really could settle with myself on what happened so I gotta read it again. The Adam thing is definately out of the question. though When I first read it, I was stuck between either it was all as it was said and he died, or Tender was just lying the whole time. Kind of an all or nothing deal. But don't count that out. Tender is telling the story. If he's faking his death, don't assume he stops there. Nonetheless the book is called Survivor, so I like to think that he lived.

And taking into account what Chuck himself said. I really don't think he died. And I think that's pretty cool. Tender outsmarted us all.

[QUOTE=Larga]Okay, so I read this book and thought it kicked ass. BUT, I felt like I wa missing something at the ending......If this is true about the tape recorder-transfer to black box, wouldn't there be like at least a 5 minute silence on the black box as he walked away to go inside the bathroom to tape his fake-out??[/QUOTE]

He recordered the ending before he started to tell his story to the black box

idk if someone already mentioned this, or maybe im just talking out of my ass, but during the beginning of the book he talks all about how to get bloodstains out of stuff and all that shit, so thats what made me originally think he was the mass murderer, plus the whole book was him talking into the flight recorder, so he could have made the perfect story as sort of a cover up so he could start over.

well the first thing i thought about fertility was that she was creedish, but i end up thinking she wasnt. The thing that made me think that was how she had her name changed to fertility, like how all the creedish tending were called tenders, well she was supposed to be having babies so she was 'fertility'. of course that doesnt really work out with the rest of the creedish society thing, but i did find that somewhat interesting. It kind of seems to me there is a bigger thing behind fertility that i just didnt get. I was waiting throughout the entire book to find out what was really up with her, but we never really found anything out.

Another note
In all CP books they all have suprise endings. I always expect some kind of magicial miracle, but then the end allways hits you with a reality check. Like in Diary, the paintings didnt really kill everyone, the little evil girl did. I was reading survivor during class and when i finished it, i was ready for some kind of miracle to happen, but then it seemd to me like, he just died. and i blurted out in the middle of our quiet 10 min reading time, WHAT THE HELL? and then i read the end over and over and over. I'm glad someone pointed out the surviving thing cuz that was a real dissapointment to think that he just died cuz he's stupid. The books always end in a reality check that miracles dont happen, but saying 'oh he must have survived by a miracle' is just an easy way of not being able to explain a very witty manuver. CP is the greatest...

when i finished reading that book 2 years back I thought for a moment that he escaped death being reborn as fertility's child. It didn't make enough sense to me and I didn't make much of that idea. I always considered the notion he used the black box to create his escape. I'm a sucker for a happy ending sometimes.

Survivor came from him being the, allegedly, the last surviving member of the death cult.
He [i]did[/i] die, I mean come on. yes, he could have used one of the extra parachutes or something but just let the poor guy die.
He needed to accomplish something finally, and Fertility lied about the bullets in his brother's gun to make Tender feel better, what is so strange about her lying and saying he would live?
What the difference between a Creedish and a corpse?...

I have a ?....

anyone remember what grapefruit juice was good for in the book. cause I just spilled some on the leg of my dark brown pants, and now it's actually a light spot. stupid grapefruits.

Wow, this thread has really made me appreciate the book so much more. I'm trying to gather my thoughts here. Upon finishing the book, I [I]did[/I] believe he died. Now, I'm not so sure.

Shit. I've been sitting here for about half an hour trying to just write what I think but it's just not coming out. The only thing I can come up with is:

Page 257. [I]"It's all done. It's all just a story now."[/I]

Obviously stories can be true or fictitious. Do I believe Tender?

I think if Tender was just a serial killer, then I think he would have survived and the cassette tape interpretations were right. Tender was a liar (repeated throughout the book - "I'm not a murderer.").

But if Tender does survive, what for? I suppose for his child, but I dunno. To me, I got the feeling throughout the book that he was eventually going to die.

Forgive me if I'm completely misinterpreting this.

I just read this entire post, and I just finished the book.

When I finished the book I so wanted to believe Tender that I believed that he died - and my thought was "You are a stupid retarted fuck- by giving in and killing yourself you did everything they wanted you to do."

But now that I go back and think about it - Tender had to be following orders. Whoever it was that was giving them, and at that point it was Fertility. Fertility knew if she got him on that plane and he faked his death - they could go off an live "happily ever after", or whatever Bullshit she had forseen. The one other thing I was surprised no one brought up - It donsn't have to be Tender's child that she's pregnant with. She was just dallying with his ex-boss, and she never says "Oh my god, I'm pregnant with your kid."

The tape-recorder theory makes perfect sense as I went back and re-read the ending, but I cannot bring myself to believe that Adam doesn't exist.
1) I think that I give chuck more credit that than
2) It would have changed the story too much if Tender was an Adam, and Adam perpetuates the story to get Tender out in the real world.
3) But I do think that Tender is the murderer. I have to go back and read it again, but I'm damn sure that all that "This is how you get out blood" etc is about.

That's my two cents, and I could be wrong - it's been known to happen.

I read the book again last nite and i disagree to him surviving at the end based on a comment he makes that says summat like "ferrtility sed id know wot to do but im stupid so i dont" this to me sounds like somebody who aint got a clue and so he stayed in the cockpit and blew up with the rest of the shit. although if there wasnt any fule left in the plane then there wouldnt be an explotion. so the chances of him surviving the crash are high. fuck this iv contridicted my self!

The problem is this: he could have SAID that he was too stupid, but only as a lie. He seemed clue-y enough through the rest of the book to me, to be able to think of how he made it out of there, especially since he made reference to the parachutes earlier on, when talking about dropping the passengers off.
Then again, as it has been said, the whole story coudl be a lie, we don't know, we are only going by what Tender told us.

I think I'm going to have to re-read this one again... I don't remmember!!!

So, in the book section of this site, according to Chuck, Tender goes to piss and dictates the end of the book into the cassette and plays that into the blackbox. The casette is destroyed of course in the wreck, blackbox survives, Tender and Fertility live happily ever after...

That's a real cop-out if you ask me. Cheap even.

Too much the gimmick, taking the resonance away.

Hi everyone, I know this is an old topic but I just want to express my opinion on the end of the book anyway.

I think the Adam being an alibi is clever and well thought out, but not true, I give credit to whoever thought up that idea I wouldn't of thought of it myself but I still feel it is not the ending Chuck intended to portray.

I think the truth is the ending isn't as complicated as some people want it to be, which in no way lowers the stories impact in my opinion. As I see it Adam was doing his best to rid himself of the creedish lifestyle and couldn't but deep down wanted to help his brother, maybe he put himself in Tender's shoes and realised if he was born three minutes after he would of been through all the shit Tender was. Adam's last rebellion against his Creedish roots was to help his brother; to get him laid.

Tender became a "man" who took control the day after he had sex for the first time, rebelling against everything Creedish doctrine taught, sex is evil etc because sex leads to confidence and power:

"Throughout history the most powerful rulers have been sex maniacs. And he asks, does their sex appetite come from having power, or does their will for power come from their sex appetite?"

Essentially, sex and and power can go hand in hand. The day after Tender had sex, he took control of his life for the first time, he made the decision to grab the gun and to put it to Fertility's head, to 'hijack' the plane, to devise the black box recording using the minicassette recorder. He wanted to live, to "work on having better sex", to gain more control over his life.

I know it's an easy thing to say, but, I believe all the little discrepncies about the tape running out at the right moment, the sequence of tape playing and actual talking to the black box, whatever, it's ambiguous deliberately, to cause us to talk about this story in the way you have.

Once people come to a personal conclusion to the novel, then they can start reading into sub-meanings about education systems and capitalist culture or whatever you want, it's great.

Amazing book, amazing author.

[QUOTE=trivial34]idk if someone already mentioned this, or maybe im just talking out of my ass, but during the beginning of the book he talks all about how to get bloodstains out of stuff and all that shit, so thats what made me originally think he was the mass murderer, plus the whole book was him talking into the flight recorder, so he could have made the perfect story as sort of a cover up so he could start over.[/QUOTE]

This is correct. Adam was "made up". Survivor was kind of an opposite of Fight Club. In Fight Club, Tyler was made up because he was cool. In Survivor, Adam was made up because Tender NEEDED him to exist. Fertility told him he would figure out a way to make everything better again, and he did by making up Adam.

If you do not believe Adam to be "made up", I highly suggest reading the first three chapters. You'll find that Tender sometimes talks about stuff that only hitmen or killers would know. You don't catch it the first time through cause they don't seem important or relevant.

[QUOTE=Svpernaut]

[b]yet another thing to ponder...[/b] if Tender did bail out long before the plane crashed, then the Flight Data Recorder could be incriminating (remember there are two black boxes, one for audio one for mechanical data). the investigators could find out that Tender stopped flying the plane (talking) and bailed out way before the plane went down (the black boxes work on the same timetable). so if Tender did indeed get away did the investigators find enough evidence to believe that he was still alive? i think they could easily do so, and they would have to look into that possibility. so if he bailed out, he would have had to do so at the VERY last minute to make it look real and have no gaps in recorder time.

.[/QUOTE]

ah, so what if he recording that ending so that it would go out at the same time as the crash. so he pre recorded a few minutes giving himself enough time to jump out or whatever and that way the voice is still recording on the black box tricking the world into believe he died in the plane.

[QUOTE=murderkitchen;523]"The end of Survivor isn't nearly so complicated. It's noted on page 7 (8?) that a pile of valuable offerings has been left in the front of the passenger cabin. This pile includes a cassette recorder. Even before our hero starts to dictate his story -- during the few minutes he's supposed to be taking a piss -- he's actually in the bathroom dictating the last chapter into the cassette recorder. It's just ranting, nothing important plot-wise,
and it can be interrupted at any point by the destruction of the plane. The minute the fourth engine flames out, he starts the cassette talking, then bails out, into Fertility's waiting arms (she's omniscient, you know). The rest of the book is just one machine whining and bitching to another machine. The crash will destroy the smaller recorder, but the surviving black box will make it appear that Tender is dead."

Supposedly, Chuck P. wrote that. It is a good explanation but I think Chuck did that so people can pick whatever ending they want: whether he dies or lives.[/QUOTE]

I've read this book twice and I have no interest if Tender lives or dies. I still don't know whether he is alive or dead. I probably never will and I just don't care. It's a good book. Not as good as Choke or Invisible Monsters, but good nonetheless. Makes me think of Chemical Pink... I really liked that one, although palahniuk didn't write it. This site introduced me to it though...

I hate when authors do it this way sometimes. It's like, if I wanted to come up with my own ending, I would've wrote the fuckin' book.

It's a brilliant ending, but it wouldve been MUCH better if he'd actually put it in the book insted of revealing it years later.

After people read it for the first time, and didn't quite understand what happened, it's not like they read through it again, spotted the cassette player on page 7 or 8 and said, "Ooooooh...". And don't even say you did, because you didn't.

Except, you know, he's not "revealing" anything. He's just come to terms that some people don't get it...

Thank you for this thread. I was unaware of the changes that would be made. At least now I'm prepared.

I was actually a little disappointed when i found out that he could have lived. I think i like it beter as a tragedy. When I picture him surviving the crash I think, "What next?" Seriously, would he go on to live a happily ever after life with Fertility and Tender Jr.? I think that Chuck gave us a choice about the ending. There's enough evidence to justify that he lives, and enough to justify that he died...I like that. I personally think the book would be better overall if he died, so next time I read it I'll keep that in mind.

As for Adam being made up, I think it's plausible, but it just doesn't seem like that's what Chuck intended. If you think the story is better with Adam being fictional, by all means believe that, but I personally think that brings more questions than answers, and again, I like the story better when Adam is real.

Second book of Chuck's I've read, and I might like this one a smidge more than Fight Club. Just bought Diary and can't wait to get goin' on it.

     I remember once in my Lit class how we had a discussion on the thought and planning that go into novels and he told us it's pretty much a crapshoot. While authors may have undergone training in writing and come out planning ever plot twist, theme, and literary device in their novel, some just write spontaneously and whatever happens happens. But most decide everything beforehand.     Looking at Chuck's previous works and the amount of research he puts into them it seems to me like he's the type A writer who extensively plans out his entire novel. I mean, I could be wrong, but he could have very well planned to have an ambiguous ending where many options were open.

Now looking at Chuck through his writing and considering my previous statement- I so totally believe he'd screw with the readers and tell each person a different thing. Quite frankly, I'd do it myself. It would be so fun to give one person a detailed explanation on why Tender lives, then five minutes later give another person a detailed explanation of why he lives. And if you think about it like that, you're right, he really wouldn't be leading you on. But he wouldn't be giving you the whole truth either.

(I don't know what your response was in response to, but from what I heard, here's my two cents.Also, fighting on the internet is like competing in the special olympics- it doesn't matter who wins, you're still all retarded.)

"Now looking at Chuck through his writing and considering my previous statement- I so totally believe he'd screw with the readers and tell each person a different thing. Quite frankly, I'd do it myself. It would be so fun to give one person a detailed explanation on why Tender lives, then five minutes later give another person a detailed explanation of why he lives. And if you think about it like that, you're right, he really wouldn't be leading you on. But he wouldn't be giving you the whole truth either."

Exactly ... I remember a story about chuck once telling a man that Fight Club was a metaphor for gay bath houses. I'm sure he loves to screw people. So the high and mighty guy who keeps telling us, "Well, ask chuck then, I did!" should keep that in mind.

When I first finished the book I was a little disappointed, but this thread has made me appreciate it more.

I don't think that Adam is fake, I think the story is much more interesting if he's real. And I think that Tender died.

Here's my theory: Fertility is a god. She knew that Tender would die, and she knew that he would record the whole story. His story lives forever, and therefore he lives on forever. Hence "survivor". Fertility made Tender commit suicide because that time he couldn't back out of it. When Adam was talking about freedom and rebellion, sex didn't work. Suicide was the only way to truly free Tender.

In the end, Fertility has the baby (to keep a god on earth), and then she commits suicide. In the afterlife, Fertility and Tender start a new life, happily ever after, just like she said.

This all fits, if you check. And why would she have the baby? Because it had to be done. Without someone pulling the strings, All the puppets of the world cease to exist.

how do you explain how most of chucks books take place in a road trip across the country?

invisible monsters
survivor
fight club
rant
lullaby diary

Diary takes place on Waytansea island, occasionally flashing back to art school

Man that's so awesome. I finished this book yesterday in my Epistemology class and was pissed cause I didn't catch that. Way good book either way. I like this ending more though.

I finished this one a while ago, but...

About the Adam dispute:
How is there an argument about this? Honestly, he gave the location of the body. There were no real landmarks in the porn fill except in the shadow of that [monument, I think?] Adam was buried under. There would be the burnt remains of a car still there, too. His entire story would crumble by this detail; therefore, Adam is not an element of Tender's story. I'm not saying that Tender didn't scapegoat his brother, but I don't believe that's the case. He openly admitted to crushing Adam's face in with a rock. If he wanted to sound completely innocent then he would have said that Adam died in the car wreck. Besides, I highly doubt Chuck would resort to using the same twist twice.

About whether he dies or not:
Tender knew all kinds of obscure things. He new about bloodstains, fabrics... pretty much bloody anything. Tender was obviously NOT an idiot, but it seems to me that he would have tried to play such a role for more believability. Honestly, there was no reason for him to take extra parachutes on the plane if he didn't know what he was going to do. Now this whole jumping "into Fertility's waiting arms" bunk, no. Just no. She is given a bit of an ethereal vibe, but I highly doubt she's divine. There's no real evidence to support such an idea. Anyway, the cassette recorder was only mentioned towards the end for the simple reason that it would have given a hint about his final survival too early in the book. He saved himself enough time to jump. Again, he's not an idiot, and he let the pilot rant about the plane for more than enough time to let him figure out what he needed. He would record more time than he needed and then- play. He's been on autopilot the whole time, so why would he need to worry about the black box for all the mechanical feedback? (yeah, those don't record the doors.)

Please feel free to prove me wrong. Don't try. Just do.

quote from WELL: " It said there were acres and acres and ACRES of land. There were no landmarks. There would be no way to find the body."

I just finished reading the book a couple hours ago. and came on this site to look up thoughts on the ending. All i found was a bunch of people pissed off. Anyway. I would love to put WELL in his place. When Tender kills "Adam" (whom i believe to be real and not a scapegoat) Tender says where he is buried. The shadow from the statue was on the grave. he said it took him three hours. Now, if someone really wanted to go to the PornFill all they would have to do is find the statue of the man dressing in Creedish outfit with his hands in prayer up high. I do not know how many statues there are, but i know Tender didnt mention any others.

and yeah maybe you talked to Chuck. and maybe you didnt. if there is proof in this forum somewhere, i would like to see it. and i will throw out my views because I think if mr. Palahniuk said it, it's true.

You've already gained Cool Points.

Tender dies in the end. Fertility says everything will be ok for him. She only says that because nobody wants to hear bad news- a theme from the book. Tender's happiness is in death, and that's what happens