The control of porn

short answer... censorship sucks.

I really don't know how to approach this question, since it's virtually impossible to exclude sex from porn and sex tools, it's even in the title... SEX tools...

As far as porn is concerned, as long as your of legal age and willing to make a decision on your own, it's just personal preference.

Hell, I dig porn. In particular, I like to see people fucking on film. Just me. Call me crazy. Call me a pervert. Butter in the ass and lollipops in the mouth. Anything that gets the juices flowin' down there in the Mr. Torpedo area, the fun zone, is cool by me. Sometimes, and I do mean all the time people get horny. Whatcha' gonna do? Not always someone around. Safe sex and all.

Masturbation is sex with someone you love, Annie Hall-style, and porn heightens the experience, and hell, if you wanna drop trou' on video yourself, go for it, whatever floats yer yoni.

Like, I'm not a judgemental person for the most part, whatever you wanna do is none of my business, and certainly living in a puritanical society such as the good ol' USA you are gonna run across the extremes, from religious fanatics to what-have-you, but if we ever allow one group or person to control what we do with our own bodies and minds, then we are headed for certain doom, because once you lose the ability to make a decision on your own, then you might as well be dead.

Society is ever-changing and we seem to go through changes in morality and what's legal and what's not, and the only way to ever become free is to find your own place in this world, and not allow yourself to become defined by what's accepted and what's not. I leave this gray area for you to fill.

Me, I don't believe in God and I certainly don't believe everything people say, and well, that being the case, complete control is not the key to making things work. Order amongst chaos never accomplishes anything. Because basically there was this little dot right? And the dot went bang and the bang expanded. Energy formed into matter, matter cooled, matter lived, the amoeba to fish,to fish to fowl, to fowl to frog, to frog to mammal, to mammal to monkey, to monkey to man, amo amas amat, quid pro quo, memento mori, ad infinitum, sprinkle on equal parts gasoline and frozen orange juice concentrate and leave on the grill till doomsday. And really the only rule that matters concerning sex,as far as I'm concerned, is you should never stick something up your puddytat that you can't fit in your mouth.

By the way, the reason porn is so popular these days is everyone is so bored. We've had nature explained to us and we're bored. The living body has been explained and we're bored. So now we want cheap thrills and plenty of them, and like it doesn't matter how tawdry or vacuous they are as long as it's new, as long as it flashes and beeps in 31 fuckin' colors, as long as we get off, and no matter what you can say about us all, we got a long way down to go, so what's the fuss all about? When we feel like shit, it's because we're just trying to blend in with our surroundings. Like, have you ever thought, but didn't know, but we may have, I may have, already lived the best days of my life, and all there is to look forward to is fuckin' sickness and self-made purgatory. So when someone asks if i've seen a dead body, I say only my own. Damn ... it feels good to be alive and horny and in my twenties... so yeah and stuff...

the internet sucks...i remember when i saw a kid and saw porn laying on the ground...it was a fucking gift from god..it was so great....now the internet kind of ruined it for us.........it's like eatting ice cream everyday.....i'm sorry..but porn has flooded the market and a naked women is losing value among us...pretty soon though....we just won't care..and then not need women...reguardless.......FUCK YA BITCH ASS NIGGAS

No way. Masturbation (not to excess) is a healthy activity. I might go as far to say pornography is an important part of our culture. But also, the US is a conservative country and sex is still a taboo (compared to the Uk or canada) so I don't think there is a porn problem here.

Luckily porn is available to anyone with a computer and it should stay that way.

I think censorship has gone a long way overprotecting people that don't want to be protected! Movie ratings for example: The Two Towers was rated PG-13. Parents STRONGLY cautioned?? Come on, give me a break... it's not like Eowyn was giving a lap dance to the Rohirrim or anything that remotely deserved a PG-13 rating!

If you're lucky enough to find good porno on the web, then you deserve to have it! Spank away, my boys!

The whole idea of what should be kept away from the eyes of kids is even more fucked up then the letter rating system.

Such as the rules for TV.

You can see a person hung to death, but you have the sound of the neck snaping your in trouble.
Or half a million ppl can be blown away, but as long as theres no blood were good.:rolleyes:

I think the fact that ppl are dying is more important then the fact that theres blood or a noise.

Ya, those rules are weird. Like you can show the boob as long as you don't show the nipple. So now our kids are going to get some idea in his head that they are a freak because they have nipples. This is especially prevalent on the magazines. Like that Agulara cover. No one has nipples that far apart!!

...natually

Pornography serves its purpose.

You want to be clean. Buy soap.
You want to climax. Buy porn.

Repression in exploring sexual desires and an active sex life leads to deeply embedded and scaring perversity. Look at repression and guilt doled out by ORGANIZED RELIGION (Not the religion itself). Those who are not allowed to be themselves can melt, warp and deviate to bad places. Priests and cardinals are a prime example. All work and no play makes Jack a sexual deviant.

Some people might feel dirty or gulity about what they enjoy looking at or what personal tastes develop over the course of their lives, but I guarantee it beats holding it all in. So indulge your inner saran wrap fiend. Do not judge what is right or wrong as you know what someone elses eyes feel like. It feels like they should mind their own damn business.

Pornography is a suppliment, just for clarification. Never stop hitting on men or woman respectively. Porno is not reality. This is the only fear people should have. That thier kids growing up might think that this is all that men and woman share.

People need to explain to their children that your partner SHOULD be one of your best friends and you should also look forward to a lot of positive and good times that don't involve nudity.

They should also be aware that with hardcore sex comes his/her friends, comforter shopping/ sporting events and his/her office parties, etc. Sex is just the brief highlight of a week full of comprimising.

I don't believe in censorship of any form, because any restriction of expression inhibits our free and democratic society. Who decides what is decent, what is right or so-called natural? Hypocritical rightwing Christians/Catholics?

If I wanna see Kobe Tai and Jenna Jameson munching each other's bushes like crazed weasels, then damn it, it's my right as an American!!!

And do you think if we allow the government or religious institutions or any entity as such decide what's decent in the privacy of our own bedrooms it will stop there? Hell no, they will start telling you what to think, control everything you say & see, maybe even in forums like this one.

Please, if you care, join in me a chant for the right of every good American to see naked people doing the horizontal mambo: PORN! PORN! PORN! PORN! PORN! PORN! PORN!

porn rules. well porn WITHOUT men in it.

just my male-chauvinist $.02

Censorship SUCKS! What is it for?
"MAsturbation is self improvement" TYLER

you wanna know what censorship is for? ill tell you. censorship is for people who are so ashamed of the fact that they have a cock(or twat. whatever.) that they are frightened that if it is known that others have cocks, people might find out that cocks are a normal thing.

obviously that is only an explanation of censorship of porn. you really don't want to get me started on other forms of censorship.

so. porn is good, except when a plot is added, and even then its pretty fuckin' funny.

this all has to do with religion. religion as a system of social control. sexual repression is just one facet of organized religion's insistence that people pour their physical desires and energies into following the religion. it's the way religion (and government) have literally harnessed the will of the populace for centuries.

It's nice to see so many people have a firm grip on this porn thing.

Get it? "Firm grip?"

I so fucking miss Beavis and Butthead. Uh huh huh... huh huh huh... yeah, yeah. I like, so totally miss those guys, yeah. They were like, cool. And stuff. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes I would watch them, and want to touch myself. You what? Oh, you know. Just sometimes I'd be watching and it's like... Ah! Damnit, Beavis. Put that thing away! Oh, yeah. Heh, heh. Sorry about that, Butthead!

[QUOTE]I so fucking miss Beavis and Butthead.[/QUOTE]

omfg me too!!!!

Censorship takes away our responsibility to make decisions. and is therefore,. horseshit.

I was going to try and post something deep, something that made a point, when I read Wesley's and realized there wasn't much else for me to say. Horseshit. Well put.
Just a brief addition: Complete censorship is horseshit. I agree that some books or movies are too graphic for minds below a certain age. There are always exceptions to the rule, but for the most part, I doubt if anyone under the age of 16 should, for example, read American Psycho. I mean, it gets really fucking graphic. Most kids just aren't mature enough to handle it, even at the age of 18 or older. Hell, to be perfectly honest I doubt if my parents would be able to handle it and look past all the violence and sex, not that I'm going to stop them from reading it or anything. But for the most part, censorship is wrong. I guess the best answer, rather than eliminating certain pieces from out shelves would be, for the more graphic items, to label them with some kind of warning. As the old saying goes, you can't judge a book by its cover, and there are plenty of deceiving ones out there. Back to the basics though, yes, censorship is horseshit. (How many times have I said that now?)

hear, hear. i like the way you think, rents.

joc are you named after mark renton?

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rents [/i]
[B]I guess the best answer, rather than eliminating certain pieces from out shelves would be, for the more graphic items, to label them with some kind of warning.[/B][/QUOTE]

So do you agree with putting an age limit on things such as they already have on movies (must be 17 to see R movies) and music (must be 18(?) to buy the parental advisory cds)?

p.s. not trying to attack you, kust wondering.

Yes and no. Without a doubt, there are dumbshit kids out there who would see the warning level on a certain item and investigate simply because it got a high warning level, which can be a good thing or a bad thing.
Scenario #1: The kid reads the book, actually realizes what was going on and it's not all about blowing peoples heads off, and gets really interested in more literature through that one piece. This, in turn, changes his direction in life.
Scenario #2: The kid reads the book, is so disgusted he vows never to touch another book other than his Meet the Stupids collection at home. He tells his parents about this awful book he found at school, he's parents call up the school board, and, after a lengthy "trial," the book gets banned. Or he thinks it's all about the violence and decides to go beat the shit out of people. He gets the wrong message entirely, ends up in juvie, then the book and similar books ends up getting banned.
Anyway, right now, I don't really have a problem with those age laws, mainly because I'm above the age they pertain to. That and the number of stupid kids, in my experience, greatly out-numbers the number of kids able to understand the message being communicated. However, I do have a problem with the drinking age, and not just cause I'm underage. It's just incredibly stupid that I can help decide the leader of our country, sign my life away to the military, but I can't sit down and have a beer with my friends.
And insomnomaniac, to answer your question, yes, the user name is in honor of Mark Renton. I saw the Trainspotting movie, decided I needed to read the book, and was almost immediately put into a brief shock about how much I could relate to Rents. Other than the heroine addiction, a great portion of that character just seems to fit. He's the only character I've ever felt I could see his world almost completely.

[QUOTE]And insomnomaniac, to answer your question, yes, the user name is in honor of Mark Renton. I saw the Trainspotting movie, decided I needed to read the book, and was almost immediately put into a brief shock about how much I could relate to Rents. Other than the heroine addiction, a great portion of that character just seems to fit. He's the only character I've ever felt I could see his world almost completely.
[/QUOTE]

cool.

no book should ever be banned. ever. for any reason. fuck self-righteous parents and fuck their weakling spoiled children. the censure of potentially offensive material where it will affect children is the PARENTS' job, and possibly schools, NOT artists and ADULTS who have the right to read/view/say whatever they damn well want.

of course this is all assuming that there is such a thing as offensive art. personally if it offends you i think you should think about why it's hitting you so close to home. and of course then we get into the chicken-and-egg argument about whether especially popular art is a reflection of culture, or is implicated in the creation of culture.

obviously you know which side i'm on.

Yeah, you're right, ultimately it is the parents' job to keep inappropriate material out of their children's hands, but seriously, this isn't always possible. Kids will find a way. It isn't the responsibility of the government to "protect" children from the offensive material, but it adds a bit of a buffer, keeping it out of reach for some kids when their parents aren't there to regulate on their asses. I wholeheartedly agree that it isn't the artist's job. Hell, it's there job to put the stuff out there and actually make us contemplate our existance rather than go through life as nothing but cogs in the machine. Yay for artists.

What's "inappropriate", anyhow?

to me "censorship" should mean "since i am a minor, my parents are keeping an eye on what i do and only letting me access things they feel is appropriate for me". and when you reach the age of legaliy, you should by then have learned your own boundaries.

Wardo, I don't think that's a completely accurate depiction of the downfall of Greece. I don't know enough about it to say with any accuracy, but I think their fall had more factors than just ass fucking and wine.

I might be wrong though.

I feel like... and this is a thought from Utah Phillips, a super Grammy nominated folk singer I got to interview a couple of years back... is that censorship doesn't exist, not really. Because while there are laws against it, you can't stop someone of any age from getting what they want, so long as they want it badly enough.

Or, to put it another way... look at the first ammendment, the freedom of speech. We fight so much about it, but the real point is that the ammendment is moot. Why? Because it doesn't give you the right to free speech. You're born with it, like your eyes.

And the government can't grant you what it can't take away.

And on that note, I just want to say: fuck shit ass bitch cunt! And I love you all!

Which is exactly why censorship doesn't work.

However, people CAN be TRAINED to limit their own "freedoms" and "liberties" and "rights" at the beckoning of the almight censoring government, and they often are. Especially in America, which is supposedly the "land of the brave" and the "home of the free". What the evidence points to is that it's the land of the pussyass fucknuts and the home of the self-propogating submissives. Especially in modern America, where the government blasts at you, constantly, about your rights WITHIN THAT CONTEXT, while failing to mention the context itself. The context is, "you can say, think, or do just about whatever you want provided that nobody in power objects to it and is therefore not against the state/party line."

Free speech ain't free. It's derivative, and generally deviant.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by willtupper [/i]
[B]Wardo, I don't think that's a completely accurate depiction of the downfall of Greece. I don't know enough about it to say with any accuracy, but I think their fall had more factors than just ass fucking and wine.

I might be wrong though.[/B][/QUOTE]

Bah!!! Don't doubt yourself! You are right Wardo is completly over simplifiying the downfall. First off, I think he means Romans b/c the downfall the "Grecians" (*wink*) is b/c the Romans took over. And I would tell you exactly how the Romans fell but that would mean I would have to go through a bunch of crap. So...

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by willtupper [/i]
[B]I feel like... and this is a thought from Utah Phillips, a super Grammy nominated folk singer I got to interview a couple of years back... is that censorship doesn't exist, not really. Because while there are laws against it, you can't stop someone of any age from getting what they want, so long as they want it badly enough.

Or, to put it another way... look at the first ammendment, the freedom of speech. We fight so much about it, but the real point is that the ammendment is moot. Why? Because it doesn't give you the right to free speech. You're born with it, like your eyes.

And the government can't grant you what it can't take away.[/B][/QUOTE]

I don't agree. Do you mean in our (America's) government or everywhere? If you mean America, maybe. But surely not everywhere. I mean if there is a government powerful enough (most are) they can just distroy all the "offensive" art and if need be kill the artist. That would be censoring, no? Only a few ppl would have seen this art and most would not know it existed. Maybe I am just reading this wrong. Could you maybe explain it a little more?

Jaron it's land of the free and home of the brave. if you're going to bash us at least try not to be as ignorant as we supposedly are.

Age restrictions are ridiculous, because age has nothing to do with maturity.

Someone mentioned that no one under the age of 16 should read American Psycho. I read it at the age of 14, and it is one of the books that has stuck with me. I was not negatively affected by the graphic content, but then I've always been above my age group.

However, sometimes even the adults don't get it. My english teacher recently happened to pick up the copy of Choke I had lying on my desk, and after reading the back cover absolutely balked and asked how I, being an intelligent student, could read such filth. Everyone is quick to make judgements. Graphic content can serve important intellectual purposes, and it is only the gratuitous violence and sex we need worry about.

To be more specific about the age thing, I also said

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Rents [/i]
[B]There are always exceptions to the rule. Most kids just aren't mature enough to handle it.[/B][/QUOTE]

My bet is that you are part of a small percentage of kids at your school who could handle American Psycho and others like it. For that reason, we need to protect not the kids, but the literature itself from being misinterpreted and attacked. As you said, even adults can be ignorant of the real meaning behind books. Not everyone is as perceptive as you and me.

it's not that age restrictions were put in place because they thought that at a certain age you could handle something. rather it was just the easiest and most consistant way to restrict the viewing of certain materials.
and on a more truthful note, if i hadn't known who Chuck Palahniuk was and read the synopsis of "Choke", more than likely i would have just thought it to be a piece of drivel as well. it's not like he purports that there's a deeper message in the book on his covers....

When I have kids, they will be able to masturbate whenever they want. My family will be very sex-open. Not to have sex with each other, but be able to talk about it freely.

age restrictions are bullshit. what was the real difference between me at 20 years, 364 days and 21 years that makes me better able to handle drinking?

That's very true, but think of the difference between you at age 21 compared to age ten or 16 even. Huge difference. And when you're growing up alcohol can have a negative affect on your growth. Of course, that really hasn't stopped anybody in the last umpteen bajillion years since alcohol was domesticated, but still. There are huge maturity differences between ages, maybe not on the day to day level, but over a given period of a few years.

it's like i said, they don't expect that at a certain age you just *boom* can handle certain responsabilities . it's more that it's a [B][I]general[/I][/B] age where the majority of people at that age SHOULD be able to handle those responsabilities. kind of like car insurance. they don't expect that at the age of 25/23 that you can drive immaculately, rather [B][I]on average[/I][/B] that's when vehicular incidents tend to drop off respectivly

[QUOTE]That's very true, but think of the difference between you at age 21 compared to age ten or 16 even. Huge difference. And when you're growing up alcohol can have a negative affect on your growth. Of course, that really hasn't stopped anybody in the last umpteen bajillion years since alcohol was domesticated, but still. There are huge maturity differences between ages, maybe not on the day to day level, but over a given period of a few years.[/QUOTE]

you have a point, but there has to be a better way. in austria, for example, people can *either* get their drivers' license or drink at age 16. i think that's a great idea. and there are ppl in many, many other cultures (france springs to mind) that are expose to alcohol from a very, very young age and it doesn't affect them adversely. as a matter of fact, these people are more likely to better be able to handle alcohol because it doesn't ahve the "forbidden" aura it has here. having met or known people from france, germany, austria, italy, england, ireland, scotland and australia, and having been to most of those countries myself, i can tell you americans have the most fucked up views about alcohol. and yet they have the highest drinking age.

[QUOTE]
The ones who are trying to get rid of porn the most seem to be the religious christian fanatics... and yet the funny thing is, I remember reading something where a plumber in Oklahoma (I think it was) was saying he would go into these fanatics' homes and he would see stacks of porn videos. They're a bunch of hypocrites.[/QUOTE]

this is why--rents--with all our bombs and churches, we're afraid.

tell ya' what, i'll just control all the porn on my own and we can be happy. while i'm at it i'll control all the alcohol, or as much as i can.

fuck you. i'm keeping my porn and alcohol to myself.

didn't your mother ever teach you to share? drinking alone makes you an alcoholic, but sharing porn makes you a pervert. how much does that suck when you want a cold one while watchin' a li'l skin fest? my question, which do you prefer- perv or alchy?

alchy. porn is usually either unintentionally funny or difficult to watch as a woman.

alchy any day. cuz if i'm drunk enuff and let my standards fall low enuff, then i'm free to screw anything.
oh god. i just realised that i'm a seedy pervert.

hell, i dunno which i'd pick, it would depend on who i'm watchin' the porn with.

valium, i wouldn't call you a seedy pervert. generally perverts have very particular tastes...fetishes and the like.

Censorship hinders free speech, free thought, and free activity; all these things were the building blocks of our nation. But, apparently, masturbation is portrayed by religious types as being morally bad and not a free activity. Bullshit. Whatever you do in the privacy of your own home is your business. Making masturbation a public issue is ludicrous. Censorship is another step closer to us living in a world dominated by Big Brother.

Another thing, internet has ruined porn. Getting porn used to be a privilege growing up, staking out behind the local liquor store waiting for the chance to steal the new fresh copy of Playboy. Now, you can't go a single minute on the internet without seeing a forty year old mother of two promoting her amateur porn website. The internet ruined porn.

[QUOTE]Another thing, internet has ruined porn. Getting porn used to be a privilege growing up, staking out behind the local liquor store waiting for the chance to steal the new fresh copy of Playboy. Now, you can't go a single minute on the internet without seeing a forty year old mother of two promoting her amateur porn website. The internet ruined porn.[/QUOTE]

huh. now that's a new one.

[QUOTE]Another thing, internet has ruined porn. Getting porn used to be a privilege growing up, staking out behind the local liquor store waiting for the chance to steal the new fresh copy of Playboy. Now, you can't go a single minute on the internet without seeing a forty year old mother of two promoting her amateur porn website. The internet ruined porn.[/QUOTE]
i definately agree with this statement. it was a big thing to be able to go out and buy a porno mag, but with the internet, it's an instant gratification thing.
[QUOTE]Censorship hinders free speech, free thought, and free activity; all these things were the building blocks of our nation. But, apparently, masturbation is portrayed by religious types as being morally bad and not a free activity. Bullshit. Whatever you do in the privacy of your own home is your business. Making masturbation a public issue is ludicrous. Censorship is another step closer to us living in a world dominated by Big Brother.[/QUOTE]
first off, what sort of censorship are you talking about, there are many different kinds. and one must always remember that there's no such thing as complete freedom. american freedom is where you can exercise your freedom until you start infringing upon other's freedoms.

it's like framsted said in a post a while ago : america might piss me off, but it's still the place in the world i would rather live.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by trypdwyre [/i]
[B]i definately agree with this statement. it was a big thing to be able to go out and buy a porno mag, but with the internet, it's an instant gratification thing.

first off, what sort of censorship are you talking about, there are many different kinds. and one must always remember that there's no such thing as complete freedom. american freedom is where you can exercise your freedom until you start infringing upon other's freedoms.

it's like framsted said in a post a while ago : america might piss me off, but it's still the place in the world i would rather live. [/B][/QUOTE]

Internet didn't ruin porn... in fact it gave it new life. Certainly one could argue that the mainstreaming of porn through the act of systematic desensitization i.e. availability to the masses via the internet is a good thing at breaking down puritanical walls... however I do like my smut to be smutty hence not mainstream... so yeah, to a certain extent the internet has ruined certain aspects of porn... besides that whole bit about how it used to be a big thing to buy a mag from a store... I mean, fuck that nonsense... porn would not be better if you had to work harder to get it. I mean, if you need to work hard to get something like porn and hate the internet, then go on a porn scavenger hunt... i do all the time... perusing adult shops, etc... for the dirtiest, filthiest porn I can find and bring it home to be all guilty and sneaky and afraid of cops raiding the place at home... I don't even like internet porn that much as i hate downloading shit with a passion... and pay sites... fuck them... if I want to pay for porn I'll do it the old fashioned way or go to a strip club or one of the local "tanning" establishments...

The whole american freedom thing about not infringing on others... well, in a lot of ways, american freedom does mean infringing on others. I agree that true freedom doesn't exist except as a theoretical concept, and I like living in America too, but that has nothing to do with the issue of freedom... it has to do with ease of existence... things are much easier to get, to do, etc... in america... that is all. We are free as americans to not do shit, or to do shit, that is all. We still get infringed upon by lawmakers and 'black-listing' groups that decide for the masses. Yeah, I'll take infringement over some other country, but that's not what this is about..

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by kopek45 [/i]
[B]Another thing, internet has ruined porn. Getting porn used to be a privilege growing up, staking out behind the local liquor store waiting for the chance to steal the new fresh copy of Playboy. Now, you can't go a single minute on the internet without seeing a forty year old mother of two promoting her amateur porn website. The internet ruined porn. [/B][/QUOTE]

Oh yeah... PLAYBOY is not porn. I don't know what PLAYBOY is, but it's one of the actual magazines that when I look at it, I am not jerking off to it... and I definitely masturbate... but Playboy has never done anything for me. Hot chicks and all, but it doesn't seem real. I'd sooner jerk-off to cartoon porn...

I don't believe in censorship of any form, because any restriction of expression inhibits our free and democratic society. Who decides what is decent, what is right or so-called natural? Hypocritical rightwing Christians/Catholics?

-ByuTfLSnowflake

That is true but also who are you to call a Chrisitan or Catholic rightwing? Are they all that way or is it just the high commanders(priests and cardninals)? I myself am neither of those religions infact I am more of an atiest but I still look at everyones view points and respect the person no matter how bogus or annoying their arguements are.