Nihilism

I think they're about change, i don't see them as dark.

[QUOTE=morey;959866]I think they're about change, i don't see them as dark.[/QUOTE]

I agree--but positive change. I see Palahniuk as a really caring guy. I feel his works are carefully crafted to ensure a feeling of hope. Nihilism to me implies no hope and devastation. That is why I feel Nihilism is not an appropriate "genre" label (if you will) for Chuck.

who describes it that way?

This site:
[QUOTE]Fight Club Nihilism, fist-fighting, corporate terrorism, and cancer meetings. What more do you expect from Chuck's first book. The book that started it all...[/QUOTE]
and the few in academia who actually pay attention to it.
Being a major in English I have met a lot of opposition by mentioning the man's name. Most in the University setting deem his works to be extremely inferior. It's upsetting. I hope I may be able to change that though. I may try to do my dissertation on Palahniuk. If I can get it approved.

who are they comparing him to when they say "inferior?"

there's a world of difference between Dostoevsky and James Patterson
I think Chuck falls comfortably in between

They compare him to "classics" and "good European" literature mostly. I got tired of the pig headed nature of academia. They feel anything modern is "inferior."

Vonnegut, HST, DeLillo
that's some pretty good inferior company i'd say

Nihilism is a useless philosophy.

[SIZE=1](See what I did there?)[/SIZE]

[QUOTE=corellion;960002]Nihilism is a useless philosophy.

[SIZE=1](See what I did there?)[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

[size=1]stated the obvious?[/size]

Oh, I'm not in the mood for your witty eye Nathaniel. I will say that I'd rather read a Palahniuk book twice than I would a Dostoevsky book.

I really enjoy modern works and I see a lot of importance in them. However, for academia, I swear, little has been written since 1900. They will expound on Rushdie and quickly classify Palahniuk, Ellis, and other contemporaries trash. However, Vonnegut is normally lauded as well. This is not always the case though.

I feel modern writers are pushing some literally important envelopes and need to be studied. But I seen to be alone in this world of academia with my opinions. Yet, I am going to push and push for a Palahniuk dissertation.

anyways, Fight Club may have elements of nihilism but it's not a nihilistic book

American Psycho deserves the nihilist title more so than others. It's dark. Fight Club at least has a nice ending with Marla and The Narrator loving each other. Patrick Bateman is a maniac!

[QUOTE=nathaniel parker;960006]anyways, Fight Club may have elements of nihilism but it's not a nihilistic book[/QUOTE]

That's how I feel. This is also the answer I expected. However, I think it is too easy for people to quickly paint Chuck Palahniuk into a negative light, label him as Nihilistic, and move on, sadly.

plus it's one book out of what? 9? he's got out now

i think he is partly nihilistic because what their doing is rejecting god and morality for their higher purposes of fighting and really living but also hes not really because theyre working towards change and so i see the book kind of paralleling dostoevsky even though ive only read crime and punishment theres definitely alot of similarities especially since the fight throughout both books is mainly mental or somewhat spiritual as well

[QUOTE=Billythenotsokid;977760]i think he is partly nihilistic because what their doing is rejecting god and morality for their higher purposes of fighting and really living but also hes not really because theyre working towards change and so i see the book kind of paralleling dostoevsky even though ive only read crime and punishment theres definitely alot of similarities especially since the fight throughout both books is mainly mental or somewhat spiritual as well[/QUOTE]

You should look up user: Ironman. You two got a lot of the same thoughts.
You guys could probably rub your skulls together and come up with a bad idea.

Fight Club has some nihilistic elements, but there is an awareness comes out of it, a shift in consciousness. I think I would in fact have to call it a [I]tragicomedy[/I] otherwise by rights everyone should die at the end.

[QUOTE=SHSUGuy1985;959969]This site:

and the few in academia who actually pay attention to it.
Being a major in English I have met a lot of opposition by mentioning the man's name. Most in the University setting deem his works to be extremely inferior. It's upsetting. I hope I may be able to change that though. I may try to do my dissertation on Palahniuk. If I can get it approved.[/QUOTE]

I'm just in the process of getting my undergraduate degree in American and British
Literature, but what I've experienced so far is that authors condemned as inferior these days (usually the living, such as Palahniuk) achieves a higher status later.
One of the problems of the academia is that very few dare to accept living authors.
Vonnegut was not looked highly upon during the 60s and 70s and from what I've heard it's more the radical students who actually walked around with a copy of his work in their pockets.
Although he is not in any syllabus I've come across he has gotten more respect...and now he is dead, rip.
I think Chuck Palahniuk is very much showing the truth of our time, although the sharpest edges of it, and that's why it's hard to accept.
He does as good as DeLillo, imo, in expressing the problems of a consumerist society.
But, yeah, we have a little project on our hands to get Palahniuk the respect he deseves
in his own lifetime.

Sorry, this is my first post, I should probably have introduced myself first, but this really caught my attention. Couldn't help myself

[QUOTE=Billythenotsokid;977760]i think he is partly nihilistic because what their doing is rejecting god and morality for their higher purposes of fighting and really living but also hes not really because theyre working towards change and so i see the book kind of paralleling dostoevsky even though ive only read crime and punishment theres definitely alot of similarities especially since the fight throughout both books is mainly mental or somewhat spiritual as well[/QUOTE]
I've always felt that nihilism is more like... the absence of meaning from [U]everything[/U], not just from god ad morality. After all, like you said, they replace the meaning of their lives with fighting. With living. Fight Club seems more Nietzschien then nihilistic to me. (although those two philosophies are often confused, they are certainly not the same)

Actually, I am currently writing my BA thesis about FC, and while doing my research I have realized there is hundreds of possible interpretations. I decided to abandon the philosophical ground, and focus on the pyschological (obviously these two have very strong connections, but...). Nevertheless I think it's SO easy to commit intentional fallacy, especially with P.'s books, and it would be best either for P. to interpret his own work publicly, or give it a rest.
Anyway, I still have to pretend I comprehend what the author wanted to say, merely to fill in the pages of my thesis, but the more I do it, the more I feel I should abandon and change the subject
IMO, the book is not nihilistic, because I don't want to see it this way. Anyone who wants to, will easily find arguments for it... Hence, it's not the book, but the reader who should be interpreted... bla bla bla

Too much psychoanalysis lately :]

i just recently started READing Chuck (my friends and i can't pronounce his name so we say "Chuck Pah-fight club") I'd been a fan of the movie for years simply because I've always wondered what it would be like to be only partially aware of your actions (I also LOVED "Memento"). My friend told me i should really read the book and so i did. I quickly found myself downing all the books i could find (so far i've read FC, Survivor, and Rant I'll be starting Monsters after i finish my reading for school.

What i've read though, strikes me much more as a satire of the house of cards that is modern society, than nihilist. Come to think of it this might only be in the movie but i love the line "we've been told we'd all be on movie screens or rock stars" I'm in the process of applying to college. I'm so tired of being asked what makes me special. I'M NOT SPECIAL, that's why you are using scores and grades to choose from a sea of kids almost exactly like me.

Hi. I'm new. I just read FC and I've started Diary. Well FC is you know...great.
And I read on a side of the book some opinions..and one said that FC was a nihilistic book...but I don't think it is. Nihilism is a rejection for all I know and it doesn't propose something new and maybe better after rejecting. But this book is certainly doing it...it's about the better world Tyler is hoping for. Btw I think nihilism is kinda' stupid. I read some phylosophy.
And I can tell that most of the FC ideas are like Nietzsche's ideas...he's my favourite phylosopher. See ya.

Try Choke, I found it an easier read than IM, but they're both great.

and to address the original post, i'd say yes:

ni·hil·ism /ˈnaɪəˌlɪzəm, ˈni-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nahy-uh-liz-uhm, nee-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. total rejection of established laws and institutions.
2. anarchy, terrorism, or other revolutionary activity.
3. total and absolute destructiveness, esp. toward the world at large and including oneself: the power-mad nihilism that marked Hitler's last years.
4. Philosophy.
a. an extreme form of skepticism: the denial of all real existence or the possibility of an objective basis for truth.
b. nothingness or nonexistence.
5. (sometimes initial capital letter) the principles of a Russian revolutionary group, active in the latter half of the 19th century, holding that existing social and political institutions must be destroyed in order to clear the way for a new state of society and employing extreme measures, including terrorism and assassination.
6. annihilation of the self, or the individual consciousness, esp. as an aspect of mystical experience.

Btw the book is very very complex and it includes lots of phylosophical themes in a subtle way.

[QUOTE=Rauleneqwe;1019848]Hi. I'm new. I just read FC and I've started Diary. Well FC is you know...great.
And I read on a side of the book some opinions..and one said that FC was a nihilistic book...but I don't think it is. Nihilism is a rejection for all I know and it doesn't propose something new and maybe better after rejecting. But this book is certainly doing it...it's about the better world Tyler is hoping for. Btw I think nihilism is kinda' stupid. I read some phylosophy.
And I can tell that most of the FC ideas are like Nietzsche's ideas...he's my favourite phylosopher. See ya.[/QUOTE]
well connecting Nietzsche with nihilism is quite stupid because Nietzsche himself was against nihilism as a unproductive and shallow ideology.
so I agree with you.