Fight Club = Bhagavad Gita

Yes.

I read this thread title too fast and thought of "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" by Iron Butterfly. Just last week, I watched the Simpsons episode where Bart sells his soul to Milhouse, which features the Simpsons singing "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" in church.

COSMIC COINCIDENCE!!!!!

why is it everytime theres a new member they always bring up something about what FC really means?

[QUOTE=spacemonkey1888]why is it everytime theres a new member they always bring up something about what FC really means?[/QUOTE]

That's an easy one. These people can't pose these questions towards their peers because they're are not familiar with the book.

tru dat, but still, c'mon

[QUOTE=spacemonkey1888]why is it everytime theres a new member they always bring up something about what FC really means?[/QUOTE]

Most dont, actually.

This thread was at the height of absolute fucking perfection when the only reply was "yes".

i concur, thought that was true humor

Hey,
this is but a brilliant comparison or so I must say. Mahabharata the story is a lot about rights and duties.

There's this part where Krishna tells Arjun that he can't do anything but fight the Kauravas for righteousness (dharma) and it was his duty (karma). Even if he didn't want to he would because his want is not finally his own. It's a collective consciousness. Lord Krishna goes on to tell Arjun that everything in the end is but a manifestation of him. Even if he tried he wouldn't be able to ward off the war because in the end, "Even you are me!" This happens after Krishna shows him the might and power that he represents being the incarnation of Vishnu.

The Gita is probably a controversy, some claim it to be religious, some philosophical. It depends on how you read it. It has something for everything and everyone and something different every time you read it. In fact it's a widely agreed fact that Buddhism too has its roots in the Gita. It's probably the most minimalistic, deep dialog ever between two individuals that unravels the mystery of being. I'd suggest you guys pick a copy up and read it. Do not buy 'any' copy because 'any' copy would generally be biased. Just like any other organised religion, even Hinduism (once it started being called so) started disintegrating for selfish interests. My personal recommendation would be: 'Bhagwadgita' by S. Radhakrishnan (HarperCollins). This is a very unbiased translation and closest to it's sanskrit text. I've tried reading a lot of the translations (including ISKCON one) in order to understand the text than just hear the slokas (verses) and this one stands out.

[QUOTE=mirka]Most dont, actually.

This thread was at the height of absolute fucking perfection when the only reply was "yes".[/QUOTE]

FAR, FAR BEYOND your wildest f'kking dreams: YES

[QUOTE=mirka]This thread was at the height of absolute fucking perfection when the only reply was "yes".[/QUOTE]

Oops.

Way to destroy the paragon guys. :spank:

[QUOTE=jugal]Hey,
this is but a brilliant comparison or so I must say. Mahabharata the story is a lot about rights and duties.
This is a very unbiased translation and closest to it's sanskrit text. I've tried reading a lot of the translations (including ISKCON one) in order to understand the text than just hear the slokas (verses) and this one stands out.[/QUOTE]

The Gita has one simple message and the rest is fairy-tales.
The message is that of non-duality, which tells us: there is no doer.

The Gita’s only message is thus: there is no doer. Life is just a hallucination. (Echo the Fight Club ...the Narrator’s hallucination, Tyler )
The greatest minds and experts that can translate and then memorize the Gita backwards and forwards cannot seem to understand this simple message: there is no doer.
And only because there is no doer Krishna tells Arjuna: you have NO CHOICE but to fight.

Life is thus exactly like a book: a character in a book has no choice about what happens in the book. SO too Krishna tells Arjuna: there is NO choice.

And the Fight Club takes this “no doer” AND “no choice” to a new level that all the experts of scriptures will never understand … not even in their wildest dreams: because there is no doer to understand.

This is a great parallel and these are the kinds of questions that should be thrown out. If you have nothing to say but some sly remarks when obviously the thread starter put thought into his question then shut the hell up! What the fuck?! That's the point of these forums, to discuss chuck's books in different ways! Must everything be void? God damnnmnmnmnmnmitititititt! sonofa bitdfhch...

to Gene Polotas:
To say fight club is the greatest piece of literature is a HUGE compliment to chuck but to me feels like you're pushing a flat staple into your cuticle. I don't agree that the Bhagavad Gita is insignificant, at all.

I've read parts of the Bhagavad Gita many moons ago. Hindu philosophy is colorful mythology and you make strong parallels regarding fighting. Arjuna realizes he's fighting his friends and loved ones, and continues to do so because there is no choice, as I suppose you could say the people in fight club do as such.

How are you interpreting non-duality? Is the non-duality the union of mind and body through fighting, nirvana achieved by transcending pain? Or do you mean eliminating illusion (alla Tyler)?

Anyway, it's a good thought and would make for a hell of an essay.

[QUOTE=]This message has been deleted by Dr.Jekyll&Mr.Hyde.[/QUOTE]

Pardon my levity good sir.

[QUOTE=Gene Polotas]FAR, FAR BEYOND your wildest f'kking dreams: YES[/QUOTE]

Well no. You sound a little zealous and his reply was comedic genius.

I see the parallels you're drawing and I could dig it as a universal story, but you keep saying that Fight Club is the true genius and that the Bhagavad Vita is [I]polluted[/I]. Like over and over. I don't agree that FC is superior to BC or that BC is polluted with too much information. I'd say, certain universal needs and truths are told over and over again because they're rediscovered again and again.

[QUOTE=Kaybeck]Pardon my levity good sir.:p[/QUOTE]
I had a moment of anger, then it passed, but it happened, and so it goes:( ...

Forgot about the polluted part. Polluted with values and ideas? Fight club is far from pure, it has its own underlining pollutants (ideologies), granted they're subversive, but they're still ideologies: universal mortal laws. You can also read a lot of existential theory into it.

[QUOTE=mirka]Well no. You sound a little zealous and his reply was comedic genius.

I see the parallels you're drawing and I could dig it as a universal story, but you keep saying that Fight Club is the true genius and that the Bhagavad Vita is [I]polluted[/I]. Like over and over. I don't agree that FC is superior to BC or that BC is polluted with too much information. I'd say, certain universal needs and truths are told over and over again because they're rediscovered again and again.[/QUOTE]

Get out of my head!

Looking at it from a literary criticism standpoint, I cringe whenever I hear someone say "this book = that book" especially when "that book" = "some religious text" which oddly seems to be the case more often than not. If the Chuck says he read the Bhagavad Gita and that it influenced his writing of Fight Club, I would give it some credit--if they are still doing "questions for Chuck" I think it would be great for you to put the question to Chuck, although phrase it a little more neutral so you don't sound like a glassy-eyed religious fanatic, something like "I've noticed some conceptual similarities of Fight Club to the Bhagavad Gita and I wondered: Have you ever read the Bhagavad Gita, and if so, did it influence your writing of the book?" Otherwise, I think it could be due to something else:

1. There's nothing new under the sun. If you break a story down to its bones, it isn't hard to find some other story that has a similar plot line, or some fundamental concept in common.

2. The mirror effect. You are passionate or knowledgeable about something, and that is reflected back to you by the story. Or possibly, you identify strongly with some character in the story. A friend of mine likes to joke about a professor that he had in college who taught that every novel that they read in class was really about communism.

3. The agenda. I don't think you are guilty of this case, but I have seen it before--someone is out to prove some philosophy or worldview, and draws in literature as "evidence" that what they believe must be right, forgetting that it is a story, a piece of art, and it doesn't "prove" anything.

i've read both of these books and never thought of this relationship. its very interesting what you're saying. i'm not sure that i completely understand the relationship, mostly because i don't remember the bhagavad gita that much. i read it at the same time that i was reading the mahabharata and the ramayana, so all of those books are kind of mixed up in my mind. but, it is interesting how books written in such different times have essentially the same message.

[QUOTE=Kaybeck]Yes.[/QUOTE]

If these three letters ( y e s) mean that you know what the words about “Bhagavad Gita=Fight Club” mean then it is only because you are Heaven itself and thus you wrote them.

And if you don't know what "Heaven itself' means then your "yes" means something else.

[QUOTE=Gene Polotas]If these three letters ( y e s) mean that you know what the words about “Bhagavad Gita=Fight Club” mean then it is only because you are Heaven itself and thus you wrote them.

And if you don't know what "Heaven itself' means then your "yes" means something else.[/QUOTE]
Uh...yeah...:smokin:...like dude, take another hit...that was like WHOA

[QUOTE=ally]i've read both of these books and never thought of this relationship. its very interesting what you're saying. i'm not sure that i completely understand the relationship, mostly because i don't remember the bhagavad gita that much. i read it at the same time that i was reading the mahabharata and the ramayana, so all of those books are kind of mixed up in my mind. but, it is interesting how books written in such different times have essentially the same message.[/QUOTE]

YOU ARE NOT ALONE. I dare say that all those experts of the Bhagavad Gita that are addicted to its words keep reading it because they don’t understand its SUPREMELY SIMPLE MESSAGE: Maya.

MAYA means that there is no doer. ALL IS Atman, Heaven itself, and there is no other, there is no doer.
Life is thus Heaven’s fiction. The reality of the mind, life, is just this illusion, hallucination or fiction called Maya. Thus there is absolutely no difference between our sleep-dreams and “life” --- they are both made up of the EXACT same thoughts. Physics tells us the exact same story.
And thus the Supreme Comedy is that the mind is always dreaming that it is awake.

If the experts of the Gita, and its Advaita, understood the Gita’s simple message that “there is no doer” then they would Realize that they are Heaven itself, Atman, Consciousness, Samadhi.
And this Heaven itself is so Untouchable, Complete and Content that it needs gods and scriptures like you need fleas.

[QUOTE=meatthinker]Looking ....although phrase it a little more neutral so you don't sound[B] like a glassy-eyed religious fanatic[/B], something....doesn't "prove" anything.[/QUOTE]

the words obviously went above your head.

"religious fanatic": I need gods and scriptures like a dog needs fleas.

If anything, I am Tyler Durden, the Supreme Psychopath ... why I am such an extreme psychopath that I might one day die laughing because “I keep the universe suspended with a single thread of my being.”

[QUOTE=Gene Polotas]the words obviously went above your head.

"religious fanatic": I need gods and scriptures like a dog needs fleas.

If anything, I am Tyler Durden, the Supreme Psychopath ... why I am such an extreme psychopath that I might one day die laughing because “I keep the universe suspended with a single thread of my being.”[/QUOTE]
Obviously. I control all the Universe from my asshole, which is why they make me President of the United States, Commander In Chief, and The Pope also of the Catholic Church. Oops it's time to take my meds.

[QUOTE=Dr.Jekyll&Mr.Hyde]

How are you interpreting non-duality? Is the non-duality the union of mind and body through fighting, nirvana achieved by transcending pain? Or do you mean eliminating illusion (alla Tyler)?
.[/QUOTE]

non-duality means that Atman, Heaven itself, is all there is. There is no other, there is no doer.

To understand what “there is no doer” means think about a sleep-dream, or movie, or book, or any other fiction, like a computer and its zeros and ones. In a book there is no doers inside doing anything, just fiction, words. In a dream there is no doer. In a movie there are no doer/s on the movie-screen. SO TOO in life.
That is what non-duality is all about: there is no doer.
Non-duality, Advaita, means that life is just Heaven’s fiction, thoughts, there is no doer, there is no other than Heaven itself, Samadhi, Nirvana.

Physics tells us the exact same story. But to understand its message you have to understand the quantum-gap (a place that no particles can enter), Atman, and not the particles that are just thoughts, fiction.

there is no doer?
havent you heard of joe pesci ? he gets shit done now !

[QUOTE=meatthinker]Obviously. I control all the Universe from my asshole, which is why they make me President of the United States, Commander In Chief, and The Pope also of the Catholic Church. Oops it's time to take my meds.[/QUOTE]

We obviously speak the same language. The only difference is that, unlike you, I am the perfect ass-hole and so I don't have to take meds to keep me stupid.

[QUOTE=Gene Polotas]non-duality means that Atman, Heaven itself, is all there is. There is no other, there is no doer.

To understand what “there is no doer” means think about a sleep-dream, or movie, or book, or any other fiction, like a computer and its zeros and ones. In a book there is no doers inside doing anything, just fiction, words. In a dream there is no doer. In a movie there are no doer/s on the movie-screen. SO TOO in life.
That is what non-duality is all about: there is no doer.
Non-duality, Advaita, means that life is just Heaven’s fiction, thoughts, there is no doer, there is no other than Heaven itself, Samadhi, Nirvana.

Physics tells us the exact same story. But to understand its message you have to understand the quantum-gap (a place that no particles can enter), Atman, and not the particles that are just thoughts, fiction.[/QUOTE]
I am familiar with the philosophy, it is also known as [URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monism]monism[/URL]. I am also familiar with this "quantum-gap" stuff going as far back as Dancing Wuli Masters by Gary Zukav. Saying that Fight Club is a treatise on monism, or that all things are Atman, is definitely a huge stretch. In that case, you are bludgeoning the book to make it fit into your concept, which is pretty much the same thing that Gary Zukav did with quantum physics in his book.

Gene, all kidding aside, you're kind of on to something. Something that's been talked about on this site for years and years already, but still.

On... to... something.

One thing that's never really been discussed here in reasoned way (at least that I can remember), and that I feel is kind of related to your comments, is this: you know that whole part in FC where the narrator says, "Every night I died, and I was reborn," in regards to going to support groups?

Yeah, well. That quote - verbatum - was originally said by Gandhi. So, yeah. I think there's a ton of eastern philosophy in Fight Club. A ton. And do I think, years from now when we're all dead and none of this will matter, that Chuck will be seen in the same way we look at someone like Mark Twain now? As a seer... one who called the shots for our culture before they were even pitched?

You better believe it . But then, the question that remains (at least it's the one I still struggle with, day-by-day) is this: how do we (you, I, anybody) incorporate the lessons such texts teach us, in our daily lives?

all i know is that the bhagavad gita was boring and i hated the class that i had to read it for, i hate books that are so unbelievable that they cant occur in real life. also when you assign 100 pages to read per class its too much to read.

[QUOTE=willtupper]Gene, all kidding aside, you're kind of on to something. Something that's been talked about on this site for years and years already, but still.

On... to... something.

One thing that's never really been discussed here in reasoned way (at least that I can remember), and that I feel is kind of related to your comments, is this: you know that whole part in FC where the narrator says, "Every night I died, and I was reborn," in regards to going to support groups?

Yeah, well. That quote - verbatum - was originally said by Gandhi. So, yeah. I think there's a ton of eastern philosophy in Fight Club. A ton. And do I think, years from now when we're all dead and none of this will matter, that Chuck will be seen in the same way we look at someone like Mark Twain now? As a seer... one who called the shots for our culture before they were even pitched?

You better believe it . But then, the question that remains (at least it's the one I still struggle with, day-by-day) is this: how do we (you, I, anybody) incorporate the lessons such texts teach us, in our daily lives?[/QUOTE]

I don't think
I don't write
I'm the Laughter
that hands think
and egos write.

If you can laugh at these words then it is only because I AM the Laughter, and not the words.
=-=
I have never written anything, not even these words. And that is the “Supreme Comedy.”
And the more I Accept/ Realize that this mind of mine could never have come up with the words that my hands think they write, the more the words make me laugh because never could they have come from this mind of mine.

And so, far beyond our wildest dreams, if I did not write these words then you must have, and that is what non-duality is all about: the Supreme Comedy of “there is no other.”

Well, all I know is that I hate it when I see someone has replied to a thread I'm actually very interested in. And then when I read what they said, it ends up just being bitching about the reading they had to do in school.

Look! A giant finger. And it makes me sad::stups:

[QUOTE=meatthinker]I am familiar with the philosophy, it is also known as [URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monism]monism[/URL]. I am also familiar with this "quantum-gap" stuff going as far back as Dancing Wuli Masters by Gary Zukav. Saying that Fight Club is a treatise on monism, or that all things are Atman, is definitely a huge stretch. In that case, you are bludgeoning the book to make it fit into your concept, which is pretty much the same thing that Gary Zukav did with quantum physics in his book.[/QUOTE]

There is an imaginary difference between you and me. You think you think and you also think you write.

I don't think
I don't write
I'm the Laughter
that hands think
and egos write.

[QUOTE=willtupper]Gene, all kidding aside, you're kind of on to something. Something that's been talked about on this site for years and years already, but still.

On... to... something.

One thing that's never really been discussed here in reasoned way (at least that I can remember), and that I feel is kind of related to your comments, is this: you know that whole part in FC where the narrator says, "Every night I died, and I was reborn," in regards to going to support groups?

Yeah, well. That quote - verbatum - was originally said by Gandhi. So, yeah. I think there's a ton of eastern philosophy in Fight Club. A ton. And do I think, years from now when we're all dead and none of this will matter, that Chuck will be seen in the same way we look at someone like Mark Twain now? As a seer... one who called the shots for our culture before they were even pitched?

You better believe it . But then, the question that remains (at least it's the one I still struggle with, day-by-day) is this: how do we (you, I, anybody) incorporate the lessons such texts teach us, in our daily lives?[/QUOTE]

What in particular of Mark Twain's 'lessons" are you trying to incorporate into your life?

[QUOTE=Gene Polotas]

Fight Club makes probably the greatest piece of literature ever written, the Bhagavad Gita, relatively insignificant by comparison.

-- UV-gap[/QUOTE]

If I speak as one who makes a comparison, then I depart from the Great and Eternal TAO. If you speak as one who makes a comparision, then you relinquish your claim, for the moment, to be a non-speaking, non-judging, echo of Eternal Laughter in the Void. By making this comparison, you have entered into the World of Duality, which invites Discourse. Argument stems from Discursive Reasoning, which posits Self and Other as separate and distinct and makes Discourse possible. In the World of Duality, where Discourse is possible, the World we have entered into because of your assertion, your comparison, it is valid for me to question things, and to do so does not betray ignorance or a lack of enlightenment.

I could question not only pedestrain things but even all manner of things related to human suffering, which is not trivial. I could say: "Why, if all is Dream and yet there is no Dreamer -- or only one Dreamer who is the supreme and eternal Atman, beyond all gods -- why then does that aspect of the Dream that reveals itself in a human face maintain these nightmare motifs? Why fleas and poverty and famine? Why brain tumors and the smell of garbage? Why "enlightened" Indian cities that smell of raw sewage? Why backwater places where human life is cheap? Why widows viciously killed by their own families if they won't emolate themselves on their husbands funeral pyre? Why a peaceful, unsuspecting Buddhist monk on a bank of the Ganges, eaten by an alligator? Why a single western woman caught bathing in an African/Muslim country, then bleeding to death from a forced cliterectomy performed many years too late? Why the fear and hatred of sexuality, especially female sexuality? Why the undercurrent of mysogyny in almost ALL religions? Surely nothing so barbarous is inevitable! Why doesn't the great and single Dreamer of All Dreams fucking dream something better, or nothing at all?

I could also ask if your wonderful spark of enlightenment that provoked the creation of this thread does not depend upon a [b]comparison[/b] of the two texts, Fight Club and the Bhagavid Gita? (It is a brilliant comparison!) But precisely because of this comparison, your enlightenment itself depends upon the World of Duality and therefore is imperfect. It's absurd and contradictory to make an assertion that begins this discoures and to claim at one and the same time that you are beyond duality and the realm of discourse. It's also absurd, once adopting this stance, to claim that one of these texts is superior to the other. Finally, it's also rather crude and crass to plunge us into the World of Duality by your comparison--to provoke this discussion--and then treat us like unenlightened savages who just "don't get it" if we point out the weaknesses in your argument. If you want to rest in the Absolute, and non-duality, then realize that every positive assertion you make is its own undoing. There is no Fight Club. There is no Gita. Thank eternal Heaven that both of these non-existent texts appeared in your dream so that you could gain the spark of enlightenment from the comparison. Even a partial enlightenment is better than none at all. The guru you could not convince of the truth is none other than yourself.

Namasté,

Mark

VP, a bit of good thinking...

Gene, this response

[QUOTE]I don't think
I don't write
I'm the Laughter
that hands think
and egos write[/QUOTE]
is a weak pretext. Makes me wonder if Meat's # 3 uses the correct amount of bleach.
[QUOTE]The agenda. I don't think you are guilty of this case, but I have seen it before--someone is out to prove some philosophy or worldview, and draws in literature as "evidence" that what they believe must be right, forgetting that it is a story, a piece of art, and it doesn't "prove" anything.[/QUOTE]
They were a lot of thoughtful counter arguments that you glazed over with the above.

If your going to compare the two books you need specific examples that you pull from both texts. Not just general statements with no evidence. This means sitting down, doing research, and WRITING. But if you don't write we're out of luck.

[I]Undertow [/I]and [I]Kay[/I], I'm restoring your posts. Don't like deleting since this place is about freedom of speech. Just thought this was a good discussion and didn't want it derailed into oblivion.

Now my ego and [I]I[/I] are getting coffee. And even if it's just my empirical senses telling me I think I need caffeine to think while I'm not thinking is just a run over shoe spotted red, cause my non-existing material self still feels withdrawal, broken joints and cracked bones.

[QUOTE=Dr.Jekyll&Mr.Hyde]VP, a bit of good thinking...
Gene, this response
is a weak pretext. ....
If your going to compare the two books you need specific examples that you pull from both texts. Not just general statements with no evidence. [/QUOTE]

Obviously there are members of this “Cult “ that feel that it is heresy if not insanity itself to compare the movie Fight Club to the scriptures.
What is this heresy?

The more the members of the Fight Club beat the living shit out of each other the more obvious it gets that the beatings are uniting them into ONE ORGANISM, Monism…that spreads like an uncontrollable plague across the country, the world …the whole universe.

This unity-bonding-LOVE-camaraderie is a UNITY that NOTHING IN SOCIETY, religions, academics or even cults can EVER hope to duplicate let alone understand. [B]And the Supreme Comedy (the mind, and its brain-body we call life) is that this unfathomable unity-bonding-LOVE-camaraderie HAS TO COME at the expense of EVERYTHING else: religions, society, academics and indeed all the morals and values of humanity itself[/B].

How the f’kkk does the Bhagavad Gita or any other scriptures/books come close to give us this same message of utter non-duality, MONISM, that is Heaven itself, Samadhi, Nirvana?
=-=

The Gita gives us the message that we are all ONE, we are all Krishna, and anything that tells us otherwise is Maya, illusion. And thus we can only hurt, love and hate and beat ourselves because there is no other. (It does this with just a few crucial-words like: “there is no doer”, and “there is no choice” – you, Arjuna, have to fight .)

The Gita gives us this message with a duplicity however. The Gita gives us its message of UNITY with a very few crucial-words while ALL THE OTHER WORDS do nothing but protect and even fortify the dualities of society’s rotes and rituals, morals and values, like good and evil, right and wrong, duty and … .

In the Fight Club there is no duplicity. While the Gita flirts with its message in just a FEW crucial-words the WHOLE Fight Club literally beats this same message into us with the utterly meaningless self-destructive fighting that destroys ALL morals, religions and societies… to leave ONLY the unfathomable unity-bonding-LOVE-camaraderie that is Heaven ITSELF:

-- and this is the Supreme Truth because there is no other, there is no doer, that can agree or disagree with this UNITY called Heaven, and there is no other.

[QUOTE=vigorous puppy]If .... "Why, if all is Dream and yet there is no Dreamer -- or only one Dreamer who is the supreme and eternal Atman, beyond all gods -- ....Even a partial enlightenment is better than none at all.
Namasté,

Mark[/QUOTE]

I AM, YOU ARE and ALL IS Heaven itself.
Since I AM Heaven itself I AM far beyond our wildest dreams: Untouchable, Complete and Content.

What is the imaginary-you trying to tell the imaginary-me that is going to make ME/YOU more Untouchable, Complete and Content?

[QUOTE=Gene Polotas]I AM, YOU ARE and ALL IS Heaven itself.
Since I AM Heaven itself I AM far beyond our wildest dreams: Untouchable, Complete and Content.

What is the imaginary-you trying to tell the imaginary-me that is going to make ME/YOU more Untouchable, Complete and Content?[/QUOTE]
All is not Heaven dude, look around. People are not Untouchable, Complete and Content. We are real and vulnerable beings in time. The facts of our existence are not consistent this ultimate monism you cling to. I don't believe that you are "Heaven itself" and "far beyond my wildest dreams." I believe that you are a limited human being of bone and flesh and blood and shit, who nonetheless deserves my respect and the dignity of a truly human existence. You should have all that you need of nourishment and medicine and opportunity to create a good life for yourself, just because you're a human being and so am I ... this makes me want those things for you. It isn't because I think you're a god. A god would be invulnerable and incorruptable, beyond any need for my concern or well-wishing.

I'm not trying to tell you [i]anything[/i] that will make you more "Untouchable, Complete and Content." I'm trying to tell you that I don't believe you are [i]any[/i] of those things. You are human like me, which means that your life is bracketed by death and non-being. It means that your happiness is tainted with loss and sorrow. But a human life can still be worth having.

Look at the posts again. No one here believes that it's a "heresy" for you to compare these texts. It's fine to make that comparison. It's fine to value one text over the other and to state your reasons. What isn't so fine is to weave in these untestable, and absolutist religious claims as a foundation for an argument about literature. You're trying to buttress your views with a bulwark of religious philosophy that puts itself beyond proof and beyond question. That isn't a valid mode of reasoning among educated people.

[QUOTE=vigorous puppy]All is not Heaven dude, look around. People are not Untouchable, Complete and Content. We are real and vulnerable beings in time.....
I'm not trying to tell you [i]anything[/i] that will make you more "Untouchable, Complete and Content." I'm trying to tell you that I don't believe you are [i]any[/i] of those things. You are human like me, which means that your life is bracketed by death and non-being. It means that your happiness is tainted with loss and sorrow. But a human life can still be worth having.

Look at the posts again. No one here believes that it's a "heresy" for you to compare these texts. It's fine to make that comparison. It's fine to value one text over the other and to state your reasons. What isn't so fine is to weave in these untestable, and absolutist religious claims as a foundation for an argument about literature. You're trying to buttress your views with a bulwark of religious philosophy that puts itself beyond proof and beyond question. That isn't a valid mode of reasoning among educated people.[/QUOTE]

We have all been educated to f'kkk each other with our knowledge/ego. So much for your educated people.
=-=
Rest assured, my dearest vigorous-puppy, that in Heaven’s fiction, called life, you are like all the imaginary others, like me, playing your role perfectly.

You are playing your role so perfectly that you might be nominated for an Oscar.

But the Supreme Truth is that when we die, to be Heaven itself, we all have to get Oscars because each one of us played our roles perfectly.

[QUOTE=vigorous puppy]

I could also ask if your wonderful spark of enlightenment that provoked the creation of this thread does not depend upon a [b]comparison[/b] of the two texts, Fight Club and the Bhagavid Gita? (It is a brilliant comparison!) But precisely because of this comparison, your enlightenment itself depends upon the World of Duality and therefore is imperfect. It's absurd and contradictory to make an assertion that begins this discoures and to claim at one and the same time that you are beyond duality and the realm of discourse. It's also absurd, once adopting this stance, to claim that one of these texts is superior to the other. Finally, it's also rather crude and crass to plunge us into the World of Duality by your comparison--to provoke this discussion--and then treat us like unenlightened savages who just "don't get it" if we point out the weaknesses in your argument. If you want to rest in the Absolute, and non-duality, then realize that every positive assertion you make is its own undoing. There is no Fight Club. There is no Gita. Thank eternal Heaven that both of these non-existent texts appeared in your dream so that you could gain the spark of enlightenment from the comparison. Even a partial enlightenment is better than none at all. The guru you could not convince of the truth is none other than yourself.

[/QUOTE]

Yes.

(The [I]yes [/I]of agreement, not the [i]yes [/i]of comedic genius)

Hmm, Gene... there're a lot of things then that you're missing. What you just did with the Gita was take a general abstraction of the whole thing. Go deeper Gene.

About equating two books - tsk tsk, never do that. Or you'll end up with something like Newspeak ; )

When we're discussing the general theme and philosophy then we shouldn't mess around with using words like 'equating'.

Well on a very bizarre note: Bhagvad Gita + Calvin & hobbes = Fight Club ha ha ha

The first time I saw the movie Fight Club I was utterly disgusted. I have no idea how I happened to stumble onto it the second time. Suffice it to say that the second time this same disgusting movie blew my mind with tears of JOY.
Now , for what it is worth, this is the fallout of these tears of Joy.

=-=

If you have seen the movie Fight Club, and identify with the camaraderie, then there is a small chance that you will understand that you are Heaven itself.
If you have not seen the movie Fight Club then all the beatings in the world might not convince you that YOU ARE, and ALL IS, Heaven itself.

How on earth can any society function, let alone survive, as long as individuals are beating the shit out of each other for absolutely no reason at all?

The ultimate paradox is the Supreme Comedy. Society can only survive and thrive as long as we use humanity’s morals, values, wisdoms and knowledge, science, gods and patriotism to beat the shit out of each other so we can then live in a cesspool of power-politics we call Freedom and Democracy.

And this Supreme Comedy called life goes: the instant society allows senseless-violence then that is the instant the cesspool of power-politics called Freedom and Democracy vanishes with all of humanity’s wisdoms, morals, gods and values into a Spiritual Wonderland that is Heaven itself.

This Spiritual Wonderland is far beyond our wildest dreams
in which the rock-solid material universe is like a vague cloud
in the distant background.

And this is the Supreme Truth because the only thing that separates the cesspool from Heaven itself is Heaven’s fiction, thoughts, words;
like me and you.

This all reminds me of when Jim Carrey signed and added "merrily, merrily, merrily...." on wet cement infront of Mann's Chinese Theatre.

It was so deep.

[QUOTE=Gene Polotas]The first time I saw the movie Fight Club I was utterly disgusted. I have no idea how I happened to stumble onto it the second time. Suffice it to say that the second time this same disgusting movie blew my mind with tears of JOY.
Now , for what it is worth, this is the fallout of these tears of Joy.

=-=

If you have seen the movie Fight Club, and identify with the camaraderie, then there is a small chance that you will understand that you are Heaven itself.
If you have not seen the movie Fight Club then all the beatings in the world might not convince you that YOU ARE, and ALL IS, Heaven itself.

How on earth can any society function, let alone survive, as long as individuals are beating the shit out of each other for absolutely no reason at all?

The ultimate paradox is the Supreme Comedy. Society can only survive and thrive as long as we use humanity’s morals, values, wisdoms and knowledge, science, gods and patriotism to beat the shit out of each other so we can then live in a cesspool of power-politics we call Freedom and Democracy.

And this Supreme Comedy called life goes: the instant society allows senseless-violence then that is the instant the cesspool of power-politics called Freedom and Democracy vanishes with all of humanity’s wisdoms, morals, gods and values into a Spiritual Wonderland that is Heaven itself.

This Spiritual Wonderland is far beyond our wildest dreams
in which the rock-solid material universe is like a vague cloud
in the distant background.

And this is the Supreme Truth because the only thing that separates the cesspool from Heaven itself is Heaven’s fiction, thoughts, words;
like me and you.[/QUOTE]

What if you're wrong?

[QUOTE=Adelheid]What if you're wrong?[/QUOTE]

Excellent question Adelheid! Straight to the point. But I doubt this level of narcissism has any room for self-doubt, therefore no room for learning. IMHO anyway.

im not surprised this thread is in motion

we've seen this before

countless examples

it will die soon

[QUOTE=MinervaG2]This all reminds me of when Jim Carrey signed and added "merrily, merrily, merrily...." on wet cement infront of Mann's Chinese Theatre.
It was so deep.[/QUOTE]
haha! that just gave me a good laugh on this rainy Sunday afternoon.... And you're right in step with the [I]Supreme Co[/I]medy. i think Gene would even agree.

[QUOTE=McMuddle]Excellent question Adelheid! Straight to the point. But I doubt this level of narcissism has any room for self-doubt, therefore no room for learning. IMHO anyway.[/QUOTE]
No acronyms! Please.. I have a hard enough time reading forward.

[QUOTE=spacemonkey1888]im not surprised this thread is in motion
we've seen this before
countless examples
it will die soon[/QUOTE]
everything dies.

[QUOTE=spacemonkey1888]im not surprised this thread is in motion

we've seen this before

countless examples

it will die soon[/QUOTE]
What's sad about this thread is not that it's still going. What's sad is the missed opportunity to discuss real parallels between Fight Club and the Bhagavad Gita.

Bhagavad Gita means "the song of God" and only a handful of religious texts even approach its beauty. It's from the same tradition, mystical Hinduism, that we get the notion of Lord Shiva as the cosmic dancer. All of Creation is merely a part of His dance. When a foot comes down, all that is ceases to be. When his foot lifts again, the Dream of life continues.

"You are the all-dancing, all-singing crap of the universe" is nothing if not a restatement of the same mystical premise. Without the literature of Hinduism, it would never have been cast in exactly those terms, whether Chuck was borrowing consciously or not.

These are the things we [i]could[/i] be discussing in a thread like this one, instead of wild, unqualified generalizations coming up against mere cynicism and indifference.

[QUOTE=Gene Polotas]non-duality means that Atman, Heaven itself, is all there is. There is no other, there is no doer.
To understand what “there is no doer” means think about a sleep-dream, or movie, or book, or any other fiction, like a computer and its zeros and ones. In a book there is no doers inside doing anything, just fiction, words. In a dream there is no doer. In a movie there are no doer/s on the movie-screen. SO TOO in life.
That is what non-duality is all about: there is no doer.
Non-duality, Advaita, means that life is just Heaven’s fiction, thoughts, there is no doer, there is no other than Heaven itself, Samadhi, Nirvana.
Physics tells us the exact same story. But to understand its message you have to understand the quantum-gap (a place that no particles can enter), Atman, and not the particles that are just thoughts, fiction.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for the definition. I'll commit on this and hopefully your other response when time permits. I like seeing how different faiths interpret duality. I have mixed feelings about what you say for practical reasons, but I’ll get to at the end. For now I’ll pullout Blake:

"Without contraries [there] is no progression." [I][SIZE=1]The Marriage of [/SIZE][/I][B][I][SIZE=1]Heaven and Hell[/SIZE][/I][/B].

Notice the marriage part. It's about the union of contrasts, which produces action and accomplishment. How can we really love if you've never struggled with hatred? Duality sharpens or appreciation and understanding.

That's a glazed over general definition coming from my morning head. Like VP said there were no compare and contrasts with specific examples of similarities between the two texts, just bias one-sided views.

I must say this is where philosophy ala politics leaves me bitter and pissed.

You can idealize and hypnotize all you want, VP said it directly, “All is not heaven….” I alluded to it to with the statement about cracking joints and such. Unless you’re a monk in the Himalayas and mediating for days on end where supposed nirvana is achieved you’ll never see this so called heaven and the elimination of suffering. Said simply, you need the means of comfort to live in this place you talk about.

We are mortal beings that feel an array of pain and suffering, physical and emotional, I know the eastern way is to transcend pain by eliminating desire, but like most theory this just leaves me dejected, it's all hypothetical. Pain, suffering, and depravity are well and thriving in the world and I refuse to close my eyes to it. Some of the worst suffering I was exposed to was in India. I sure as fuck an't telling a one legged kid that weighs forty-ponds and had their fingers chewed off on a loom in a sweetshop lit with a candle that all is heaven and that we are in a comedy. Plus the cast system is alive and kicking, and duality thrives. I've watched businessmen continually spit on a beggar with massive tumors as he simply tries to clean his feet.

I’m slippng from the rope. Anyway, that's my response to your definition of non-duality. Again, I wish this had revolved more around parallels between [COLOR=Red][I]Fight Club [/I][/COLOR]and the [COLOR=Lime][I]Bhagavad Gita[/I][/COLOR]. I can’t claim authority on the topic because it been many years since I’ve even looked at either books. If your going and this with fresh eyes, with BOTH texts on the mind, then pick up on some of the questions VP just talked about.