Palahniuk's point of view about Knowledge

Hmmm. Do you mean consummation as in the marriage sense? Probably not (Choke didn't have an awful lot of wedding vows thrown about, anyway). I think you, or possibly he, means it in the sense of completion.

You could consider it an epiphany, or enlightnement. Or whatever. Knowledge gained is generally done so at the end, or during a journey, spiritual or otherwise.

So yeah. Knowledge can definitely be a product of consummation.

Do you have any examples off hand? I.e a specific point in one of the stories we could discuss?

zfh, good to see you roaming the boards. a lot of new members come and go within five posts. youve made it past six. seriously, though. i went to your website and poked around a bit. very original, a different layout dynamic than any ive seen. pretty cool. and youre a scribe. anyway, dont think i mentioned Hi in your thread so i'm saying Hi now and Welcome to the cult.

and mathsometingdontwannafigureitoutyet,

do you mean consumerism, or do you really mean consummation ?

-kabol

..

Thanks jKabol and Zombie Fire for your warmhearted welcome words. It's appreciated!

Yes, I mean consumerism of knowledge. Especially, in Choke, we find sentences about forget what you know. In FIGHT CLUB (the movie), we find Tyler talking about it to Jack:

TYLER
Do you know what a duvet it?

JACK
Comforter.

TYLER
It's a blanket, just a blanket. Now why guys like you and I know what a duvet is? Is this essential to our survival? In the hunter-gathered sense of the word? No. What are we then?

JACK
You know, consumers.

TYLER
Right. We're consumers. We're by-products of a lifestyle obsession.

Thanks for your time!

m

i think "jack" said: I don't know... Consumers?

but i could be wrong. it's been a few years.

-kabol

..

I think the common thread that runs through the majority of his books regarding consumerism is almost like a plea to people to attempt to break this standardized mold that we as Americans fall in to. He is trying to show us how to be different and not be lead around like sheep through advertising and marketing. Why do two late 20's to early 30's men need to know what a duvet is? If they did not possess this knowledge would it decrease their quality of living? Would it hinder their ability to provide food, water, or shelter for themselves? Absolutely not. We see characters like this in all of his books. People that are attempting to challenge the status quo and break people out of their comfort zones.

I think the mention of knowledge as a product of consumerism is his way of telling people not to take things for face value but to question everything. Take the time to research the things that we strive for and try to assign a real value to them, instead of the corporate idea of perceived value, and make yourself a better person. It's very much in line with the basic economic principal of utilities, or utils. What do you get more utils (value) from, taking a couple of hours out of your day to read a book, or watching tv? There is no right or wrong answer. It is all about what activity (or product) gives you the most utils. It is okay if you are the kind of person that takes great pleasure and pride in owning a lot of "stuff". As long as you are doing it for the right reasons and are cognizant of those reasons and are not purchasing for the sake of purchasing.

We know what we know by what we take in
through the senses, correct?

What you know about smell qualities you've
acquired through things you've smelled (consumed in your nose?)
Or through the description of others experiences and your
empathetic abilities I suppose.

What you know about sound qualities you've
acquired through things you've heard (consumed with your ears?)...

all knowledge is gained through "consuming" with the senses.

be careful little eyes what you see
be careful little noses what you smell...

To the "common thread" comment about not being led toward
advertising and marketing schemes, I must say, it seems stranger than Chuck's
fiction to me that people are spending millions of real dollars on
stimulated baubles and trinkets to dazzle friends and frenemies (man they'll let anything in the dictionary these days) alike. I could be wrong, maybe I misunderstood the newspaper article, but from what I gathered, that's what really goes down on uh, that facebook stuff. I can't believe we quit watching Mtv Cribs long enough to find something stupider to waste our time and money on.

What's this "we" shit? You got a mouse in your pocket?
I've never watched minute one of any of those MTV shows and wouldn't know anything about them if it wasn't for you people always talking about them.

I've been meaning to ask you about how that being clever thing
is working for ya. And by we I mean humans so, yeah--you.
and I don't even have television so, yeah--you.

If America wants to know then they can pay me to star in my own reality series and then they'll find out.
I don't give away anything for free.

well....shit.