What would be the worst???... (Spoilers)
I'm not sure if it goes in here so sorry if i put it wrong.
In his early novels at least, chuck is known for the "transgressive fiction" of them, i personally love it, and a great part of the charm is how quirky or bizarre yet realist the violence is, and now that i think about it, i kinda wanna know...
¿What is the worst criminal act commited in each of his novels?
From the ones i read (Fight Club and Survivor) and the one i'm reading (Invisible monsters) it would be:
Fight Club: Tyler Murders people, gives marla a black eye
Survivor: Tender Branson assist suicide (Convinces people to kill themselves)and hijacks a plane
Invisible monsters: Shannon gives hormones to seth, she and brandy steal drugs from houses.
¿So what are (according to you) the worst crimes?.
(it's not neccesarily the felony that is most punished, but the one you think is morally or otherwise more wrong)
"It is not reason, more or less furnished, but will that makes the world march"
I am alone.
In the book, I believe he killed that guy that worked for the mayor (making good on a human sacrifice) at a "who done it" party.
***Spoiler?***
I think the worst crime was in Lullaby (I haven't read this in a while) where the narrator's friend read the culling song to girls he wanted to sleep with.
this wasn't on the list of read books so I hope I didn't give away too much
i agree with tuffy but not for the same reason. i think killing yourself is pretty fucking wrong. wishing against your own life. taking someone else' is even more wrong. but i think the ultimate betrayal of life is making someone kill themselves. that has to be the most purest form of wrong on this planet. that and teletubbies.
: i tried to post this from my phone, but that excruciating :
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play hard, like it's work to be done.
giving a woman a black eye certainly is not worse than murdering (i didn't mean to imply that on the comment, sorry) i just put it in there because that is the major one that i can remember (it's been some time since i read Fight Club too, actually), but yeah, in the book (i think you only saw the movie, sorry if i'm wrong) Tyler does murder people and is more of a bastard than in the movie.
I did not read all of Invisible Monsters (i was around the 25th page when i posted the thread) so i couldn't say much about it.
***SPOILERS*** Actually it is kind of curious now that i think about it; when i finished survivor and found out about the "Tender not really dead" thing, i never really reflected on the fact that a guy who encourages suicide and is generally a jerk ends up so (relatively) well, not that i though him a good guy or anything, but it is quite curious. ***SPOILERS***
"It is not reason, more or less furnished, but will that makes the world march"
I am alone.
In the book, I believe he killed that guy that worked for the mayor (making good on a human sacrifice) at a "who done it" party.
The human sacrifices were mostly killings? excuse my stupidity but i always thought they were always more like the movie.
think the worst crime was in Lullaby (I haven't read this in a while) where the narrator's friend read the culling song to girls he wanted to sleep with.
How does that help him in his goal?? unless (as i suspect) he has a particular and creepy fetish.
And don't worry about the read books things, i don't usually mind spoilers:P
"It is not reason, more or less furnished, but will that makes the world march"
I am alone.
off topic, Tyler Durden's destruction of the debt record was not a crime and probably would be one of the greatest things ever to happen to the common man.
Except that
- It is a crime, and
- The bombs didn't go off.
Tuffy the Dump Truck may rarely increase the risk of a heart attack or stroke. The risk may be greater if you have heart disease or increased risk for heart disease (for example, due to smoking, family history of heart disease, or conditions such as high blood pressure or diabetes), or with longer use. Tuffy should not be taken right before or after heart bypass surgery. Also, Tuffy may infrequently cause serious (rarely fatal) bleeding from the stomach or intestines. This effect can occur without warning symptoms at any time while taking Tuffy. Older adults may be at higher risk for this effect. (See also Precautions and Drug Interactions sections.) Stop taking Tuffy and get medical help right away if you notice any of the following rare but serious side effects: bloody or black/tarry stools, persistent stomach/abdominal pain, vomit that looks like coffee grounds, chest/jaw/left arm pain, shortness of breath, unusual sweating, weakness on one side of the body, sudden vision changes, slurred speech. Ask your doctor if Tuffy is right for you.
Well... we're getting into philosophical ponderings then. It might be beneficial to mankind to blow up a few office buildings (though I suspect Tyler would have been far more successful by recruiting a few hackers to corrupt data rather than destroying entire city blocks), but we're getting into the difference between legal definition of crime versus moral or ethical wrong. Which can be tricky.
Tuffy the Dump Truck may rarely increase the risk of a heart attack or stroke. The risk may be greater if you have heart disease or increased risk for heart disease (for example, due to smoking, family history of heart disease, or conditions such as high blood pressure or diabetes), or with longer use. Tuffy should not be taken right before or after heart bypass surgery. Also, Tuffy may infrequently cause serious (rarely fatal) bleeding from the stomach or intestines. This effect can occur without warning symptoms at any time while taking Tuffy. Older adults may be at higher risk for this effect. (See also Precautions and Drug Interactions sections.) Stop taking Tuffy and get medical help right away if you notice any of the following rare but serious side effects: bloody or black/tarry stools, persistent stomach/abdominal pain, vomit that looks like coffee grounds, chest/jaw/left arm pain, shortness of breath, unusual sweating, weakness on one side of the body, sudden vision changes, slurred speech. Ask your doctor if Tuffy is right for you.
ANONYMOUS IS THE FUTURE OF REVOLUTION you are so correct.
Oh, brother.
Tuffy the Dump Truck may rarely increase the risk of a heart attack or stroke. The risk may be greater if you have heart disease or increased risk for heart disease (for example, due to smoking, family history of heart disease, or conditions such as high blood pressure or diabetes), or with longer use. Tuffy should not be taken right before or after heart bypass surgery. Also, Tuffy may infrequently cause serious (rarely fatal) bleeding from the stomach or intestines. This effect can occur without warning symptoms at any time while taking Tuffy. Older adults may be at higher risk for this effect. (See also Precautions and Drug Interactions sections.) Stop taking Tuffy and get medical help right away if you notice any of the following rare but serious side effects: bloody or black/tarry stools, persistent stomach/abdominal pain, vomit that looks like coffee grounds, chest/jaw/left arm pain, shortness of breath, unusual sweating, weakness on one side of the body, sudden vision changes, slurred speech. Ask your doctor if Tuffy is right for you.
In the book, I believe he killed that guy that worked for the mayor (making good on a human sacrifice) at a "who done it" party.
The human sacrifices were mostly killings? excuse my stupidity but i always thought they were always more like the movie.
I believe that the narrator mentioned in the book that he had to make good on some of the threats. He also made carried through with the balls threat (and he stored them in the kitchen freezer).
[quote=Dream}
think the worst crime was in Lullaby (I haven't read this in a while) where the narrator's friend read the culling song to girls he wanted to sleep with.
How does that help him in his goal?? unless (as i suspect) he has a particular and creepy fetish.
And don't worry about the read books things, i don't usually mind spoilers:P
This was a great side plot--but that's all I will say. I really enjoyed this book and suggest that you read it after Invisible Monsters (which is another favorite).
Fight Club aside, this made me think about the internet back in 1996. You would think that there would be more of a paper trail because the internet is so new but, around this same time, one of my friends paid a hacker to basically do just this:
One of my friends was an engineering student attending school, at a major university, on a football scholarship. Needless to say, he spent the four years in a drunken haze. Right before graduation, he realized that he would never get a job with his grades and wasted the last four years so he paid a guy in the computer science department to hack into the colleges records department and change his transcripts. With his new grades, he was able to land a job in New York City paying about $200,000 a year. After two years, he quit and took a similar position, including a substantial raise, with a competing company--totally bypassing the whole transcript issue--pretty much leaving him in the clear.
But, alas, he was a partyer. After a steady diet of alcohol, cocaine, and Russian prostitutes, he lost his job and is back in 'East Bum-Fuck' as a delivery driver.
I believe that the narrator mentioned in the book that he had to make good on some of the threats.
I see.
He also made carried through with the balls threat (and he stored them in the kitchen freezer).
Shit. That's hardcore man, fucking hardcore.
This was a great side plot--but that's all I will say. I really enjoyed this book and suggest that you read it after Invisible Monsters (which is another favorite).
Well, i was thinking about reading chuck's novels in a more chronological order (started with fight club, then survivor, now invisible monsters, after choke and so on) but i saw a bit of the story of lullaby and a graphic novel they made here in the cult and it sounds like quite the novel.
Except that
It is a crime, and
The bombs didn't go off.
¿do you mean the film or the novel? because ***SPOILERS*** while in the movie he wants to erase financial history (that while i, as you, don't think it good, have however mixed feelings about it, i don't really see it as that bad) the bombs did went off, but in the book financial history was never his target, he wanted to destroy history (as the Narrator says in Chapter 1, page 5: "The last shot, the tower, all one hundred and ninety-one floors, will slam down on the national museum which is Tyler's real target." but the bombs didn't go off. ***SPOILERS***
"It is not reason, more or less furnished, but will that makes the world march"
I am alone.
You're right. I totally didn't make myself clear.
Tuffy the Dump Truck may rarely increase the risk of a heart attack or stroke. The risk may be greater if you have heart disease or increased risk for heart disease (for example, due to smoking, family history of heart disease, or conditions such as high blood pressure or diabetes), or with longer use. Tuffy should not be taken right before or after heart bypass surgery. Also, Tuffy may infrequently cause serious (rarely fatal) bleeding from the stomach or intestines. This effect can occur without warning symptoms at any time while taking Tuffy. Older adults may be at higher risk for this effect. (See also Precautions and Drug Interactions sections.) Stop taking Tuffy and get medical help right away if you notice any of the following rare but serious side effects: bloody or black/tarry stools, persistent stomach/abdominal pain, vomit that looks like coffee grounds, chest/jaw/left arm pain, shortness of breath, unusual sweating, weakness on one side of the body, sudden vision changes, slurred speech. Ask your doctor if Tuffy is right for you.
You're right. I totally didn't make myself clear.
I wasn't trying to show you up or be a jerk about something that happened in a book. In fact, it's kinda pathetic that I've read, listened to, and watched the story enough times to know this type of useless information off the top of my head.
I just wanted to add my thoughts to a point that you brought up.
I was obviously referring to the immediately preceding pst, to wit:
Except thatIt is a crime, and
The bombs didn't go off.
¿do you mean the film or the novel?
Also. ¿Why this? You obviously grasp English well enough to know the rules of punctuation. Seems... affected.
Tuffy the Dump Truck may rarely increase the risk of a heart attack or stroke. The risk may be greater if you have heart disease or increased risk for heart disease (for example, due to smoking, family history of heart disease, or conditions such as high blood pressure or diabetes), or with longer use. Tuffy should not be taken right before or after heart bypass surgery. Also, Tuffy may infrequently cause serious (rarely fatal) bleeding from the stomach or intestines. This effect can occur without warning symptoms at any time while taking Tuffy. Older adults may be at higher risk for this effect. (See also Precautions and Drug Interactions sections.) Stop taking Tuffy and get medical help right away if you notice any of the following rare but serious side effects: bloody or black/tarry stools, persistent stomach/abdominal pain, vomit that looks like coffee grounds, chest/jaw/left arm pain, shortness of breath, unusual sweating, weakness on one side of the body, sudden vision changes, slurred speech. Ask your doctor if Tuffy is right for you.
Also. ¿Why this? You obviously grasp English well enough to know the rules of punctuation. Seems... affected.
I'm sorry but i don't get you, ¿you refer that independently of it having worked out it was still a crime?, actually that makes more sense, sorry if i misinterpreted at first. (¿what do you mean with "affected"?)
"It is not reason, more or less furnished, but will that makes the world march"
I am alone.
Hmm...spoilers ahead.
Tyler Durden committing and sanctioning large-scale vandalism and terrorism
Tender Branson convincing people to kill themselves (I think we're all pretty agreed on this)
Green Taylor Simms raping all of his female forebearers
Edit, posted wrong, sorry.
"It is not reason, more or less furnished, but will that makes the world march"
I am alone.
I don't think you mean it the way it sounds like you're saying it, but it appears that you are placing murder and giving someone a black eye, although a woman (which is certainly despicable), on the same level while totally discounting numerous acts of actual terrorism.
The greatest crime one can commit is causing the death of another human being. Or so I believe.
Now, it's been a very long time since I've read Fight Club, or any of the others for that matter, so I would have to concede to someone who is much more of an authority, but as I recall, in the film at least, the only person who actually dies is Robert Paulson. Tyler is indirectly responsible for his death, of course, at least ethically.
In Survivor, Tender's greatest crime would of course be the encouragement of suicide which far outweighs the theft of material goods (an airplane). I believe that it's implied that no one dies in the highjacking and crashing of the plane so, ethically, far-lower in terms of Evil or whatever one chooses to call it.
In Invisible Monsters, you have people habitually committing criminal acts on each other, the worst that I recall being the shooting of Brandy by Evie. Presumably she is dying as the story is told.
I won't get into the books you haven't yet read so as not to ruin any surprises for you.
Tuffy the Dump Truck may rarely increase the risk of a heart attack or stroke. The risk may be greater if you have heart disease or increased risk for heart disease (for example, due to smoking, family history of heart disease, or conditions such as high blood pressure or diabetes), or with longer use. Tuffy should not be taken right before or after heart bypass surgery. Also, Tuffy may infrequently cause serious (rarely fatal) bleeding from the stomach or intestines. This effect can occur without warning symptoms at any time while taking Tuffy. Older adults may be at higher risk for this effect. (See also Precautions and Drug Interactions sections.) Stop taking Tuffy and get medical help right away if you notice any of the following rare but serious side effects: bloody or black/tarry stools, persistent stomach/abdominal pain, vomit that looks like coffee grounds, chest/jaw/left arm pain, shortness of breath, unusual sweating, weakness on one side of the body, sudden vision changes, slurred speech. Ask your doctor if Tuffy is right for you.